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Old 08-18-2010, 08:16 PM   #1
steve s
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Default new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

I believe that I have obtained the technical data sheet (pdf) for the "new" Zenith carb sold for the Model A Ford. Here's a picture of the carb whereof I speak, including my invoice.



Identification in the pdf is a bit ambiguous, but the carb was apparently first made in 1981 and appears to have been modified in '87, '88, and '97. The instructions provided to me by Zenith refer to "67" and "267" Series carb. The 1st-page blueprint sheet refers to model 68-8 as being the model for Model A's; it seems to me to be close to, if not the same as, the 67. Most helpful, that page also says to set main jet to 1 1/4 turns open, and the idle adjustment 3/4 turn open.

The chatter contains much interesting insights about the carb's innards, assuming that the little 67-68 model number discrepancy is not crucial. It has two floats, to accomodate operation during extreme vehicle tilt; I am hoping that this also portends extra resistance to stalling during hard stops. Also, an "economizer system" is supposed to improve mileage during part throttle operation by applying "back suction" in the fuel bowl to reduce fuel flow; this must explain why some users have noticed that a surprisingly light gas pedal is required while cruising.

I've never attempted to attach a pdf file before; hope it works, and that other, more perceptive readers will glean and share additional insights that are revealed. Wonder why not a shred of instruction is provided with the carb.

Steve
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File Type: pdf New Zenith carb instructions.pdf (885.3 KB, 411 views)

Last edited by steve s; 08-18-2010 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Thanx Steve! Much appreciated.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
Glenn C.
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Thanks for the info Steve. I have these carbs on two of my cars with great success.
The car does not stall during a hard stop. I for one appreciate your posting of the sectional view, parts list and instructions. Came through great !!
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Steve, I've been away from Model A's for about 40 yrs. When and why was a "new" carb. made? Exclusively for A's and B's or also for tractors etc. I've never seen one before.
Pete
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:22 AM   #5
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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Steve, I've been away from Model A's for about 40 yrs. When and why was a "new" carb. made? Exclusively for A's and B's or also for tractors etc. I've never seen one before.
Pete
Pete,

I really don't know much about this for sure. My impression is that Zenith never really quit making carbs, although Ford quit using their product. The 13922 was apparently used in a wide variety of variations and applications. One key modification that became a standard requirement in the 30's was use of an air filter; this required that the gas bowl be vented, not to the atmosphere, but to the air intake throat of the carb. Otherwise, the inevitable pressure drop due to air filter resistance would cause the greater (atmospheric) pressure in the bowl to push out too much gas. The improved bowl/float design reducing stalling on sudden stops seems to me to be an even more wonderful advance.

I am attaching another pdf by a Rick Botti that I found during my Google searching. This has some more interesting lore, but I have no idea of the date, authenticity, or original publication venue. It sounds like it was in some club's newsletter. Judging by the font and layout, it might even be from the Restorer or Model A News. My inquiry to Frank Witkowski, an apparent supplier, at the "bellatlantic" email address listed bounced back.

Another thing that has wondered me about the carb is whether it was designed for use with a fuel pump, another advancement that became standard in the 30's. The Botti pdf mentions experimenting with fuel pump pressures and finding that 1.5 - 2 lb pressure was good. He said that less than 1.5 starved it at high speeds. I've had my car up to 60 mph with this carb on it, which is good enough for me. I guess the fact that we continue to hear only positive, often rave, reviews by Model A'ers who have used it tells-the-tale. On the other hand, I have seen it disparaged as the "forklift" carb by folks who I assume are restoration purists who likely have not used.

Other knocks of its design I recall from earlier threads include the loss of enrichment adjustment from inside the car (the choke rod only chokes). It sounds from the earlier pdf like this was finessed by the "economizer" feature. Also, there was something about the design of the enrichment valve being more prone to blockage by crud in the gas, which brings me back to wondering about fuel pumps AND the gas filters they enable. BUT, again, it's hard to argue with a bunch of satisfied owners.

I've only got a few 10 mile trips on mine, but it seems good so far. My only objection would be that it's noisier than my original Zenith-1. I've taken off my heat shield and most of my ugly insulation on the fuel line, etc., and no vapor lock issues so far.

Steve
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File Type: pdf New Zenith Replacement Carburetors by RIck Botti.pdf (40.2 KB, 157 views)

Last edited by steve s; 08-19-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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Thanks for the information Steve. I presently have one on order and am awaiting its arrival.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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Thanks for the information Steve. I presently have one on order and am awaiting its arrival.
You'll have to do something about your fuel line. The carb's fuel inlet is an inch or so closer to firewall, but, more important, it takes a pipe thread (use thread sealer) rather than the compression collar deal. I took the carb and a spare sediment bowl top to an auto parts store to find brass fittings that let me convert to a piece of 5/16" ID rubber fuel line.

Steve
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Don't have a carburetor fire that rubber line will empty the tank if burned. I have that carb and don't remember the fix but I run a steel gas line from bratton's
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

J Franklin. How about checking your fuel line fix and letting us know how you did it. As always thanks in advance
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Steve,
Thanks for the info and the pdf. It looks like Zenith has a history going back a long way. Hopefully the design and name will prevail considering a world full of fuel injected electronic gizmos.
Pete
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Steve! This information had been very helpful! Thanks. I thought I was the only one running one of these carbs with all the weird looks I get when I ask about it! Thanks again.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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Steve! This information had been very helpful! Thanks. I thought I was the only one running one of these carbs with all the weird looks I get when I ask about it! Thanks again.
Glad to be helpful. Having put some more miles on mine, I can say that the recommended 1 1/4 turn-open enrichment adjustment is way too much, on my car anyhow. The carb was very noisy at highway speed, including an odd pulsating/surging sound. I'm now using 1/2 turn--much better, but still it's not as quiet as my old Zenith 1.

I see that for some unknown reason my original photo has been removed, so I'll stick it back in here, in case any one new to the thread wonders.

Steve
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

The fitting to the carburetor is 1/4" tube to 1/8" NPT. with a ferral. The other end to the sediment bowl uses the standard 9/16" hex head fitting available from most Model A parts suppliers.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

I've had mine apart already, and there is nothing to them. I had a piece of junk stuck in the needle seat. I cleaned it all out and added a filter element before the carb. My needle still stays open when I leave the gas on, stinking up the garage of gas fumes. After reading your pdf, I'll be removing again to adjust the floats this weekend.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve s View Post
Glad to be helpful. Having put some more miles on mine, I can say that the recommended 1 1/4 turn-open enrichment adjustment is way too much, on my car anyhow. The carb was very noisy at highway speed, including an odd pulsating/surging sound. I'm now using 1/2 turn--much better, but still it's not as quiet as my old Zenith 1.

I see that for some unknown reason my original photo has been removed, so I'll stick it back in here, in case any one new to the thread wonders.

Steve

Steve, what is the red item in the lower right of your pic? I have just a hole there that seems to be solid (doesn't lead anywhere). Is it important?
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:17 PM   #16
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

That is just a plastic plug to keep dirt out of the hole that should be open for the Model A. The casting was created to allow for the inlet hole to be tapped either where that red plug is, or on the end where the metal plug is in his picture for the B engines, or on the back side if it was used for another application.

If yours is blocked off and not tapped, you may have one that won't work on your car.
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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Steve, what is the red item in the lower right of your pic? I have just a hole there that seems to be solid (doesn't lead anywhere). Is it important?
Like Elrod said. That's where I attached the fuel line, although it took some doing. It is very important. Are you sure it's blocked?

Steve
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

Haha, I was looking at the picture backwards! Yup, mines the same! Thanks. She doesn't seem to like .5 a turn... I'm running at about 1.5 turns now, down from 3.5.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

I installed one a few months ago and found it a marked improvement. It runs smoother and seems to start quicker.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: new 13922 Zenith carb instruction sheet

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I installed one a few months ago and found it a marked improvement. It runs smoother and seems to start quicker.
Skeezixx,

Could you tell me what air filter you're using and how you attached your fuel line to the carb?

Thanks!

Steve
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