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03-24-2021, 08:20 PM | #1 |
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Overdrive parts availabiliy
I have a 65 Mercury Montclair with a 3 speed o/d that does not work,it had burnt wires so they been repaired but still no o/d. Been running tests and relay is good but even with both wires to the solenoid disconnected and the relay grounded when the blue wire is hooked up to the solenoid it wants to arc and no click so I think I need another solenoid and is there anyone who has any or rebuilds them.
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03-24-2021, 08:40 PM | #2 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Check with Van Pelt Sales, http://www.vanpeltsales.com/
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03-25-2021, 10:57 AM | #3 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
The Montclair likely has the later T85N with R11 OD if it is original. There are a number of electrical components for OD systems and most are still available new from 5th Avenue Internet Garage. I would check out & test the main relay, operating solenoid, kick down switch, and governor to make sure all are functional if the wiring has been replaced. Theses old electric overdrives took a fair amount of current to operate even on 12-volt so make sure the wiring is the correct size of American wire gauge.
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03-25-2021, 03:30 PM | #4 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
One word of caution about repop solenoids: before you install one remove the cap and observe the action of the heavy amperage pull-in coil contact (the lower contact closest to the base) to be sure contact is broken when the plunger extends. If it doesn't break contact the pull-in coil will be connected all the time which will burn out the windings in the base in short order. Burnt windings can't be repaired economically. The pull-in coil can be adjusted either by bending the tab on the moveable contact or by shimming with small flat washers.
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03-25-2021, 07:54 PM | #5 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Relay works and not sure about the governor and need to check the kick down switch before I get parts but when hooking power to the solenoid it wants to arc even with both wires disconnected from the harness,I found three burnt wires in the harness so something sorted out.
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03-25-2021, 08:57 PM | #6 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
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03-25-2021, 09:27 PM | #7 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Shop manual has a wiring diagram,the wires going to the coil and governor from the kick down switch are the ones that burnt.
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03-26-2021, 08:17 AM | #8 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Have you run a diagnosis on the solenoid? Two ways to do it:
1) Connect a long jumper wire to the wire that leads down from the relay to the solenoid, then touch the other end of the jumper to the battery +. The solenoid should click. If it doesn't click there's the culprit. 2) Remove the solenoid and touch the wire from the relay to battery + and ground the solenoid to battery -. Again it should click. If you try it this way be sure to have a good grip on it because if its in good nick the plunger will extend with a lot of force. While you have the solenoid in hand remove the cap and take a good whiff. If it smells like burnt wiring it's toast and needs to be replaced.
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03-26-2021, 08:27 AM | #9 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
The # 6 terminal is the power in spot for the operating solenoid. Here is a link to a basic and general diagram for the Borg Warner electric overdrive.
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...ve-wiring.html The #4 terminal is for the momentary drop out when the kick down switch is activated. The solenoid also has internal points to provide the function for the solenoid. It's easy to remove the cover and have a look at things. The solenoid has a pull in coil and a holding coil in its make up. It takes more current to pull the solenoid into overdrive and a lesser about for the holding coil to keep it engaged so that the current needs are reduced for normal operation. I've purchased good units off of flea-pay that just need a cleaning. In the OP's case, the 12-volt solenoid would be the one to look for. Most of the car manufacturers that used the electric OD used the same basic solenoid but there were special ones made for certain applications. |
03-26-2021, 06:11 PM | #10 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
I ran a wire from the battery to the solenoid and it just arced but no movement in the solenoid.
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03-26-2021, 07:14 PM | #11 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Did you run the wire to the terminal on the solenoid marked "6" as rotorwrench suggested? Sometimes the marking is very faint. You can actually touch the jumper to both terminals in turn. if you touch it to #4 nothing bad will happen. Terminal 6 connects to the pull-in and hold-in coils. If you did touch it to #6 and got no joy the solenoid is bad.
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03-26-2021, 07:15 PM | #12 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Power to #6 and ground to the case of the solenoid.
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03-26-2021, 07:18 PM | #13 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
One arcs and nothing on the other.
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03-26-2021, 07:24 PM | #14 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
The solenoid grounds through its case to the transmission. You can run an extra ground from one of the solenoid mounting bolts to the frame. Extra grounds don't hurt anything.
One other question. On the cap of the solenoid you should see a small, punched drain hole. If there's evidence of oil coming out of the drain hole the seals have gone bad and allowed oil into the solenoid windings. One of the seals is in the hole in the trans that the solenoid plunger goes through and is easy to replace; the other seal is in the solenoid around the plunger and can't be replaced without complete disassembly. Best to get a new solenoid and transmission seal.
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03-30-2021, 07:49 PM | #15 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Done more tests to make sure the kick down switch works and it did not initially work but found another broken wire,two broken and three burnt wires in the harness but all are fixed now and will remove the solenoid next.
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03-30-2021, 07:57 PM | #16 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
You may know this already, but to remove the solenoid you need to turn it about 1/4 turn counterclockwise to release it from the pawl inside the trans. When reinstalling or installing a new one you will need to power it up so that the plunger extends, then insert the plunger into the trans and rotate it into position. Once it's in cut the power and bolt it up.
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03-30-2021, 08:53 PM | #17 | |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Quote:
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03-31-2021, 09:01 AM | #18 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
I've never had a problem installing an operating solenoid without powering it up. The pawl usually stays at the lower end of its throw when a person removes the solenoid but I guess some of them may try to move during the install. Not saying it can't happen, but I just haven't had that problem yet.
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03-31-2021, 02:13 PM | #19 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
I recently replaced my solenoid on my '51 Merc.. to remove it, I removed the 2 bolts holding it to the case. then rotate it to the right ( if you are facing the solenoid ) to about the 1 o'clock position and pull it straight out. to reinstall is just the reverse. insert the solenoid shaft into the trans with the solenoid mount boss at the 1 o'clock position and rotate left until it is about the 12 o'clock position and the bolt holes line up. at this point, before installing the bolts, pull out VERY lightly on the solenoid slightly, it should have light spring tension on it if installed correctly. you can feel this tension when you are removing the solenoid after the 2 retaining bolts are removed, and before rotating it to the 1'oclock position. like rotorwrench said, unless the pawl is somehow moved out of position, it is not necessay to power up the solenoid. I have read that sometimes this happens when installing the solenoid if care is not taken to pay attention to the "flats" on the shaft when you remove the solenoid so that it can be reinstalled the same way. hope rhis makes sense and is of some help
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05-01-2021, 05:46 PM | #20 |
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Re: Overdrive parts availabiliy
Another way is to take an ohm meter, take all the wires off of the solenoid, one lead to the power in post and the other to the metal shell of the solenoid. The meter should show "OL" or open circuit, if it shows any number or reading that means the solenoid is shorted to ground internally. Do this to both terminals, you can also do this test with the solenoid out of the car.
The governor can be tested simply spinning the input and having an ohm meter hooked to it also. You need to spin it fast enough to close the contacts inside the unit, once closed the meter will have a reading but before it closes it will read "OL". Last edited by 1oldtimer; 05-01-2021 at 05:51 PM. |
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