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Old 02-20-2021, 03:02 AM   #1
gegebanger
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Arrow Special inscription on cylinder block

i guys,
Does any one have an idea ??
What this means ?

I fund this model A motor in FRANCE...


thank you very much !
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:22 AM   #2
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Most likely a post production block cast by a contractor foundry..that casting mark is unique.
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Old 02-20-2021, 01:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

hi Jack,
That's what I thought.
THANKS
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

I wondered if it was a Gaz A engine from Russia?
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

HI BUCK,
I can't find pictures of russian engine...
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

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See http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/gaz67enginestart.htm and below
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

A Russian jeep engine based on the Model A engine:


http://wwiijeepparts.com/WW2/Photos/....64.Engine.jpg
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Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

My speculation is that the foundry trademark is Asian, perhaps China or North Korea. Try posting your photos on Facebook.
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Old 02-21-2021, 09:02 AM   #9
gegebanger
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
A Russian jeep engine based on the Model A engine:


http://wwiijeepparts.com/WW2/Photos/....64.Engine.jpg
THANKS NKAMINAR,
i don't see a picture with this inscription...
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
My speculation is that the foundry trademark is Asian, perhaps China or North Korea. Try posting your photos on Facebook.
Japanese daughter in law says does not look Chinese, Japanese or Korean to her.
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

A Russian casting would probably say GAZ rather than the inscription you have.
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Quote:
Originally Posted by gegebanger View Post
i guys,
Does any one have an idea ??
What this means ?

I fund this model A motor in FRANCE...


thank you very much !
Go to this link and try to date the block....If you have it in your sight.

http://plucks329s.org/pdf/enginebloc...ESCRIPTION.pdf

This will give us kind of a time line as to where it might fit the scheme of things.

Pluck
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Hi Steve! Thanks for sharing your paper re engine block changes. Very well done!
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:37 PM   #14
gegebanger
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Hi guys,

news pictures of motors...is it a model B BLOCK ???
I don't have the cylinder head...

THANKS !!
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:39 PM   #15
gegebanger
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve plucker View Post
go to this link and try to date the block....if you have it in your sight.

http://plucks329s.org/pdf/enginebloc...escription.pdf

this will give us kind of a time line as to where it might fit the scheme of things.

Pluck
it s fabulous !!! Thank you very much...
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Old 02-23-2021, 01:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gegebanger View Post
Hi guys,
is it a model B BLOCK ???

THANKS !!
It is a Model A block.
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Old 02-24-2021, 11:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

The foundry trademark (today "Logo") on the block is definitely a stylized union of two Cyrillic letters, possibly producing a digraph or trigraph somewhat unrelated in pronunciation to the letters themselves. Cyrillic divides into general categories of Slavic, Non-Slavic, and now seldom found ancient Cyrillic letter symbols.

In 1929 Ford signed a contract with Russia/ Soviets/ Stalin to assist in construction of the Nizhny Novgorod automotive plant. Initial production started 1/1/32 and it was NOT "GAZ". The Ford oval was displayed at the plant, which initially was Nizhegorodsky Avtomobilny Zavod. Their 'logo' was NAZ.


It was not until a year later that the general Russian area known as 'Gorky" was more prominently incorporated into the name and logo, replacing Nizhegorodsky with the simplified Gorkovsky, thus the change from NAZ to GAZ.

Now, looking at general handwritten and stylized Cyrillic script of both Slavic and ancient origins (WAY more complicated than any printed Cryillic alphabet chart) and adding the early NAZ rather than GAZ to the mix quite a few possibilitys present themselves.

Adding to evidence linking it to production at that particular plant, I fall back on my own past when I ran two foundries and produced a lot of cored castings requiring something known as 'chaplets' to support and position sand cores. Ford/ Rouge 'A' blocks used two spiked chaplets with a small flange to support the water jacket core. The remaining external marks appear as small bumps several inches left and right of the serial number pad on the block.

Chaplets are sourced locally from a multitude of suppliers and sometimes fabricated in-house. It would be unlikely, as well as irresponsible from a manufacturing point of view to extend that much detail specifics to a consumable part used in casting production. This block shows that decidedly different head style chaplets were used, leaving approximately Nickel sized (5 cent piece) marks with no sign of a locator spike. That style of chaplet has also appeared on later GAZ block castings.

Also prominent on that block are a large impressed "25" and "65". Not a single 2565, they are separate impressions. These were likely made by two stamped zinc tags placed upon ram-up. This would be a common track method for early production run. Of note here is the unstamped serial number pad, correct in detail, likely the result of the Russian plant using a block pattern produced in the Ford Rouge pattern-making shop.

Leaving fewer stones unturned, I also looked into possible production that may have appeared in Poland (again, Slavic) when GAZ licensed use and production of their vehicles in the early post-WWII years. The 'A' engine was not part of the deal, likely due to Ford licensing entanglements, so that possibility is eliminated.

I believe that engine was one of the early Russian NAZ production. Of course that is only my guess, and you can throw it in the pile with the rest of the speculations. How it got to France is a whole 'nother question.
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:24 PM   #18
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Well done investigation
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Old 02-24-2021, 12:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

I'm interested in what look like two core plugs at the top of the block in photo #1 of post 14. Doesn't match any photo of a GAZ-A engine I've ever seen. Also the shape of the reinforcement around the oil pump in photo #2 – it's blurry, but it doesn't seem to match either the shield shape or the heart shape.
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Old 02-24-2021, 01:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Special inscription on cylinder block

This is interesting, here's a Russian classic-car restorer that restored a GAZ-A engine that apparently they found at a WWII battlefield:
http://simonovmotors.ru/works/3/

Here's the shot of the right side of the engine block. No insignia near the oil return boss. Also note whatever's going on at the lower edge of the valve chamber.
worksimg59.jpg

Not to say this isn't a very early casting, but so far the evidence tying it to GAZ/NAZ seems weak to me.
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