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03-07-2011, 06:15 PM | #1 |
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Setting Toe-in
I finished installing my rebuilt pitman arm/drag link/tie rod/steering arms today and now need to set the toe-in. Has anyone used the chalk method described by Les Andrews? I had no luck getting the chalk to "lay onto" the tires thick enough to then be able to scribe a visible line into the chalk mark. I'd be interested in any tips for accomplishing that step.
I'm also looking for a good way for making accurate measurements between the tires so as to precisely set the 1/16" required. I don't think that a retracting steel tape will do the job. I'm thinking that I need something akin to a folding rule with an extendable section so I can get a clean measurement between the tires. Thanks for any ideas! |
03-07-2011, 06:57 PM | #2 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Pilot,
I used a broom stick handle aprox. 48" long and screwed a long bolt into the tip of the handle where i could adjust it aprox a in" or two by screwing it in or out, on mine it was aprox 50". I jacked the frt. end up off the ground and did two or three test, i found the rear of the wheel was aprox 50" and the frt. was 50 1/4 [tow out] I just made adj's. untill i had aprox. 50 1/8" on the frt. and aprox. 50 1/4" on the rear, [a slight tow in] i'll drive it if it ever quits raining and see. I did read Les Andrews book, a little to much for me, im just a simple guy [Lazy] . good luck. |
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03-07-2011, 07:15 PM | #3 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Louis, thanks for your suggestion. That is very similar to the device my wife and I were discussing over dinner! I think part of the challenge is that the amount of toe-in specified is pretty small for the kinds of measuring devices that readily come to hand! Hope you get some nice dry weather soon.
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03-07-2011, 08:48 PM | #4 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
I take mine to an alignment specialist with all their lazer beams, and fancy bells and whistles and they set it up toe, caster etc for about $50.
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03-07-2011, 09:13 PM | #5 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Do they really set the caster? It's not meant to be adjustable on a Model A without a lot of work -- is it? Like removing the spring u-bolts?
I set my toe-in by scribing a line with a ballpoint pen on the tread surface of each front tire, and measuring that in front and in back. A chalk mark was too wide for precision. Maybe scribe with ballpoint over the chalk. Scuffed tires should hold a chalk mark. Fearless |
03-07-2011, 09:31 PM | #6 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
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03-07-2011, 09:20 PM | #7 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Tom, that might work. Thanks. I can take it to a front-end specialist if all else fails!
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03-07-2011, 09:29 PM | #8 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Just to add one other small tip to Tom's suggestion. Apply a 4" - 6" piece of masking tape to the tread. Usually will stick good, and marks are quite readable. I have to agree, that the retracting steel tape is ackward, especially if you are working by yourself. One of these days.....(job #179845).....i think it will be time to build a proper tool that will sit on the floor, with adjustable pointers that are on centerline with the axle.
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03-07-2011, 09:40 PM | #9 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Guys, try this simple home made tool. It is constructed from 2 lengths of aluminium channel that slide into each other (old shower screen frame). You simply rest it on 2 pieces of wood 6" high, mark the tyres on the inside where they touch. Draw a line on the channel where they channels meet. Roll the car forward until you meet the mark on the tyre (now at the rear). Set up the channels again and then check the line drawn on the channel - the gap at rear should be 1/16" wider than the front
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03-07-2011, 10:25 PM | #10 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
When setting the toe-in, are the front wheels supposed to be off the ground or with the weight of the car on the wheels? It probably doesn't matter due to the solid axle but..... Les's book says to do it with the wheels off the ground and to take the measurement at the hub cap level, but I'd like to hear from some others
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"Betsy doesn't leak oil - she just marks her spot" Last edited by Colorado Greg; 03-07-2011 at 11:20 PM. |
03-08-2011, 12:03 AM | #11 | |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Quote:
http://abarnyard.com/workshop/align.htm
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03-08-2011, 03:34 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Quote:
Hmmm, I did read it correctly (see attached) and I think I will follow the service bulletins for the correct method!! I have had several issues with the way Les goes about things. Like everything, you must take it with a grain of salt. With Les's method, there is even more room for error than you mentioned due to him wanting you to make chalk marks by hand. Doesn't seem very accurate to me!!! Thanks for the correct link Marco!
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"Betsy doesn't leak oil - she just marks her spot" Last edited by Colorado Greg; 03-08-2011 at 04:56 AM. |
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03-07-2011, 11:06 PM | #13 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Some really good suggestions! Thanks a lot. Using blocks to maintain a uniform height while providing support for the rod should help a lot.
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03-08-2011, 05:45 AM | #14 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
I mark the tire tread with a ball point pen then drop a plumb bob to a tape measure on the floor. I don't use the end of the tape either. Use the 10" mark on one end and read whatever on the other end. It's easier to subtract ten inches. But then if you use 10" when taking both readings, you don't need to subtract it. Will give a better reading. Also I use two plumb bobs, one on each tire. This is the easiest I've come up with if your doing it by yourself.
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03-08-2011, 07:59 AM | #15 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
I believe that Les's approach was based on trying to get uniform locations on the tires at which to take measurements. In theory the "chalk and nail" approach should work to scribe uniform measurement lines on the tires, but it didn't work for me!
My plan is to follow the Service Bulletin method, using several of the ideas described above as a starting point. I want to allow for measuring at front/back of the tires to enable me to quickly determine how far out of spec I am now and gauge how I'm doing as I adjust. Construct a tool using a 1"x1"x48" piece of lumber. I will secure a ruler to one end to serve as a measurement index and provide 6" stands for both ends. I'll set the tool touching the tire on one end and use a straight edge to measure the distance to the tire on the other end. The only tricky part is measuring at consistent locations on both tires. There's a convenient rib on the side of the tires near the tread that should do the trick. I should be able to mark the measurement locations on the tires, roll forward, and measure behind the axle at the same locations. I really appreciate the advice and experience of those on this Forum - once again it will keep me out of trouble. Last edited by Pilotdave; 03-08-2011 at 08:05 AM. |
03-08-2011, 08:14 AM | #16 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
You can buy the bar/chain toe-in guage like in the service bulletins from here:
http://www.teambearusa.com/modules/s...P64875C284.cfm Last edited by RonC; 03-08-2011 at 08:20 AM. |
03-08-2011, 09:35 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Quote:
I just bought one of these on ebay for $35. The guy's ebay name is molinestud. I believe he has a number of them. |
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03-08-2011, 08:47 AM | #18 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
If you set your toe in when you just have the chassis, does it change when you add the weight of the sheet metal and body?
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03-08-2011, 10:53 AM | #19 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
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03-08-2011, 12:00 PM | #20 |
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Re: Setting Toe-in
Plenty workable ideas above and here's a couple methods from stock car land . The most common method is toe plates - these are two plates that are usually aluminum but can be whatever and are usually 32x16 and have hand holes top center and a couple horizontal slots in the front and rear 6" up to hook a tape measure in . Set these against your tires making sure the TOP is flush with your tire . Take your tape and hook it in the slot on one side and measure to the the other side . Really simple - fast - accurate and can be done by one person . You only need the slots on one side but they are always there on both and besides it tells you the proper height to measure from . The other common method is to make a toe gauge { we always used square tubing } but you can use whatever as long as it doesn't flex any . The simplest way is to take a length of tubing that is a foot longer than the width of the widest vehicle you may use this on and a couple 8" segments of the same material and weld these on the ends as uprights . On one end weld a good size bolt 3" long to the top of the upright horizontally with it's head facing the middle . This is your locator for the far side . On the near or measuring side you can just use your tape to check the gap or you can build an adjustable pointer . We always welded a couple identical 6" round washers on the bottom on each side so it would stand on it's own . Take this and set it with the bolt on the far side contacting the tire in the MIDDLE of the sidewall and position the near side in the middle of the sidewall and measure the distance between the tire and the near upright . Do the same for the rear and adjust your tierod until the rear dimension is 1/16 " wider than the front . This is also fast , simple , accurate and only requires one person . I would have the car on the ground so you don't get false readings . Also remember to roll the car back and forth a couple feet after adjusting your tie rod and before you check it again . This is WAY more important on A-frame cars but it still applies to these . Sorry no pics of these as it's been 18 years since I last raced and other racers borrowed them and you know how racers are about returning stuff Good luck David J PS Make sure your wheels are not BENT or Wobbly
Last edited by David J; 03-08-2011 at 06:24 PM. Reason: add stuff |
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