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Old 04-26-2020, 08:09 PM   #1
duchmill
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Default cylinder head studs

We'er installing Evans heads on a 24 stud. The studs are misaligned with the new heads. Whats the trick? Or do I just pound them down?
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Did you check the spacing of the holes in the head using a new head gasket as a pattern? Probably more importantly, did you possibly make the mistake (OOPS) of running a TAP through each stud hole to clean-out the threads in the block? DD
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Studs can be out of alignment. One method is to remove the studs, mount the heads and reinstall the studs being careful to align them. Not sure how to do it without removing them. You can also enlarge the holes in the heads. This is often done on more common heads (and something the suppliers have done on modern heads), but not sure if it would lower the value on Evans heads.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

When fitting aluminum heads to one of these engines one needs to take extra care.

A bit hard to actually get what you're saying; have you fitted replacement longer studs to suit the heads? If so, some of them could be slightly cocked. They can be straightened in situ. Or, are you using the original studs, having removed the old heads, and discovered the new heads won't slip over them and down into place? Please elaborate and we can advise further. And....welcome!
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

I have never experienced he problem you are having, so I can't offer any advice other than

"Don't even think of pounding them down"!
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

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Tubman, aren't you a bolt guy?
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Yeah, I am, on 8Ba's. But I have to ask : What the hell has that to do with "advising" a guy not to pound on a set of potentially valuable Evans heads to make them fit?
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Set the head on and see which studs are offending. Run a nut on the stud and tap it over until it aligns. Go to next, etc. I would not enlarge the holes in the heads.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Thought it was interesting that a bolt guy was recommending not pounding the heads on. But you are so right! Hope your not losing your sencse of humor!!
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

"JSeery"- Sorry, I missed the humor angle (smiley face) in your post. I still stand by my "don't pound on 'em" statement, even for a set of new, easily replaceable Edelbrock's.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
"JSeery"- Sorry, I missed the humor angle (smiley face) in your post. I still stand by my "don't pound on 'em" statement, even for a set of new, easily replaceable Edelbrock's.
Totally agree with your post on not pounding the heads on, good advice for sure. I will try to remember the happy faces!!! Long day I guess.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Totally agree with your post on not pounding the heads on, good advice for sure. I will try to remember the happy faces!!! Long day I guess.
Everything is cool. This "lockdown" thing has got everybody on edge. Today, I got excited because I got to take out the garbage!
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

No lie!!!
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Old 04-27-2020, 04:14 AM   #14
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Unhappy Re: cylinder head studs

My engine builder (Bill Robinson,CA now in AZ) had that problem with an original block letter Sharp heads on a 59AB (with all new studs)he did for me.I think he honed the few holes concerned.No way were the heads going on the way they were.


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Last edited by deuce lover; 04-27-2020 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

I use bolts. also, you might want to put a coat od Latex paint on the gasket.
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

If you're talking about "pounding on the heads" to get them on - don't ever do that! Why - because you migth get them on ONCE, and you may never get them back off. You'll either need to bend/align the studs (if they are stock and softer type originals) or you may need to make the holes in the heads a bit larger (not a big deal) - or a bit of both.

If you are talking about pounding on the sides of the studs to 'bend them' so they align better (using the method FlatJack9 mentions) - I have done that with STOCK Ford studs (as they are not that tough of material and are probably 'Grade 5' or so). If you're talking about a set of aftermarket studs like ARPs - then I would not suggest this method as they are a very high quality and you might just hurt the block.

I always use new ARP Studs as they have a nice Allen head socket on the top. I only put TWO studs in the block to start - and get my gaskets on and place the head on. Then I put each stud in with a socket wrench and an Allen socket - with good sealer on the coarse threads. This way, I'm not attempting to get 24 studs to go into 24 holes - just to get the heads on.

Removal: I take one stud OUT at a time (with an Allen socket) - and then easily pull the heads later on. Trust me - this is the way to go with aluminum heads and studs!
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

I have taken flatjack9's approach with Ford studs and found it to be a trouble free solution, but over time have changed to slipping a pipe over the stud and giving them a tug in the appropriate direction. That gives me more of a sense of control. They never get very far off, unless a PO put a helicoil in an out of true newly tapped hole. Can sometimes help with that too.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Yep, I have used the pipe method also. My customer builds are always done with the Ford studs.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Almost everyone understands the basic problem as stated.

The fix should be done BEFORE any other machine work is done on the block.

The cause:
The stud is bent. Not likely with new studs.

The thread in the block is not straight due to rust and corrosion or bad previous fix.
A tap run in by hand will NOT necessarily correct this. The tap needs to be run in on a machine like a mill, head/block machine or a fixture that bolts to the deck to keep the tap vertical.

The old myth about using the correct class of tap in this case is over kill. The threads have seen so much use that they are way beyond the tap tolerance to start with. An ordinary class 2 tap is adequate. If you can screw an oil lubed stud in with your fingers and it has a slight drag, the thread is tight enough.

Putting a nut on the end of the stud and bumping it with a hammer or using the pipe method will work most of the time but there is a better method that is non violent and will also check the condition of the stud and the block thread before any assembly work has been done.
You need a piece of 2 inch round alloy bar stock (SAE 4340) with a 7/16 hole through the middle and
FACED SQUARE ON BOTH ENDS. The length will be the same as the thickness of the heads you are using. You will need a HARD high nut also. After you tap the hole, oil the stud and screw it in the hole to be tested. Screw it in by HAND till it bottoms and BACK IT OUT 1/2 turn. Put the sleeve on the stud and the high nut and torque to 10 ft. Lbs. ABOVE the torque you will be using at final assembly.
If it holds and feels good when tightening, back it off and remove the sleeve. Now take a square and see if the stud is square with the deck. It should be. If not you have 2 choices. One, fix the thread in the block or, two, Mickey Mouse the stud with a pipe or hammer.

In any case you know what you have BEFORE final assembly. No rust or dirt in the cylinders or ports.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:54 AM   #20
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Default Re: cylinder head studs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Almost everyone understands the basic problem as stated.

The fix should be done BEFORE any other machine work is done on the block.

The cause:
The stud is bent. Not likely with new studs.

The thread in the block is not straight due to rust and corrosion or bad previous fix.
A tap run in by hand will NOT necessarily correct this. The tap needs to be run in on a machine like a mill, head/block machine or a fixture that bolts to the deck to keep the tap vertical.

The old myth about using the correct class of tap in this case is over kill. The threads have seen so much use that they are way beyond the tap tolerance to start with. An ordinary class 2 tap is adequate. If you can screw an oil lubed stud in with your fingers and it has a slight drag, the thread is tight enough.

Putting a nut on the end of the stud and bumping it with a hammer or using the pipe method will work most of the time but there is a better method that is non violent and will also check the condition of the stud and the block thread before any assembly work has been done.
You need a piece of 2 inch round alloy bar stock (SAE 4340) with a 7/16 hole through the middle and
FACED SQUARE ON BOTH ENDS. The length will be the same as the thickness of the heads you are using. You will need a HARD high nut also. After you tap the hole, oil the stud and screw it in the hole to be tested. Screw it in by HAND till it bottoms and BACK IT OUT 1/2 turn. Put the sleeve on the stud and the high nut and torque to 10 ft. Lbs. ABOVE the torque you will be using at final assembly.
If it holds and feels good when tightening, back it off and remove the sleeve. Now take a square and see if the stud is square with the deck. It should be. If not you have 2 choices. One, fix the thread in the block or, two, Mickey Mouse the stud with a pipe or hammer.

In any case you know what you have BEFORE final assembly. No rust or dirt in the cylinders or ports.
Great suggestion
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