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Old 09-02-2020, 07:41 PM   #21
paul2748
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Default Re: oil with out zink

The guy who commissioned this study has no axe to grind with anybody. He is a noted early Bird restorer and engine builder.


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Originally Posted by greenpondmike View Post
Paul, I believe you posted that in good faith, but I don't trust the article. I think there are a lot of propaganda articles out there to control what people think. I was a teen in the 80s and my dad worked on his own stuff and I knew some hot rodders also. The oil never gave any trouble that I'm aware (unlike the lower zddp oils of today) of except for some cheap store brands and the rumors to stay away from quaker state and stp. I've read the articles including the one on modern oils that give higher psi flow (now pressure). I bought into them and almost ruint my engine on that stuff. Can you really blame me if I'm more sceptical than ever now?
I was about as gullable as a blonde haired dude could get, but as Abraham Lincoln once said--you can't believe everything on the internet because there is no way to prove that it's true....lol
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:34 PM   #22
greenpondmike
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Default Re: oil with out zink

Sorry Paul, I still don't believe him. He is just like many I have seen on the web that says these things to calm down all those people like me that is angry with the epa for ruining our oil. He even has a link to that 540 ratblog that deceived me into using modern oil again. Anybody can write or say anything and if you mix it with the right catch phrases it could sound believable especially if one has a pedigree like he does. As I said, I was a teen in the 80s and also I had a truck by 84 and did my first oil change. Back then I used gulfpride 10w-40. Man, that was some good oil. Later on I used pennzoil 10w-40 and valvoline 10w-40 and even castrol 20w-50. Those oils were good back then compaired with the whimpy offerings they sell today at 2 or 3 times the price. I'm not ragging on you for believing that article, but I can't believe it myself. I mean, if zddp was enough in the 80s with that low level of zddp as the article says, then why did they increase it in the SG and SJ rated oils in the 90s--I mean, why did they feel the need to? The SG and SJ rated oils were the standard by which us old timers measure these modern oils by, but I think and from experience know the SF rated oils were better than that article say they were. There are websites all over the net telling this propaganda just so we will accept their "green epa friendly" oils at the severe risk of our old engines. Sorry if I sound angry--I am, but I'm also not ragging or downing anyone here--just disagreeing.

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Old 09-03-2020, 09:43 AM   #23
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Angry Re: oil with out zink

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Originally Posted by greenpondmike View Post
I humbly disagree. My truck is a 71 stock 6cyl and PYB 10w-30 high mileage almost ruint my cam and did damage a lifter. I now have 15w-40 delo in it with an additive in it. I put the whole bottle in and I only needed 1/4 a bottle, but my engine runs real good on 5000+ppm of zddp. Wish I could get ahold of some old 30wt delo, but I may try some of that renagade 3000ppm oil or penn grade(brad penn). Now valvoline racing would be my last resort, but is an option. I just don't want to trust this epa mandated car oil anymore. Who wants to trust the government to protect their engines?
before you go pounding your chest thinking you enlightened the world about the big bad oil companies ruining your engine what damage did it do to your lifter that it did not take out your cam?Paul pointed you to a discussion that explained their results.you have the right to disagree with it if you can bring forward evidence to dispute the results by all mans do so.but to say it ruined your 1971 6 cylinder by doing something to your lifter that miraculously did not harm your cam I find hard to believe.your quote about what you read also applies to your story I was sure that your engine used hydraulic lifters and does not apply as the oil they were talking about was aimed at solid lifters and heavy spring pressure

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Old 09-03-2020, 10:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: oil with out zink

There is quite a discussion over on the shelby forum on oils. Long thread but lots of info.
admittedly it is in a modern engine (5.4)


https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...l-poll.787413/
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Old 09-03-2020, 05:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: oil with out zink

I just can't seem to deal with all of this oil controversy. I am still trying to come to grips with all of the engines that are going to fail from using lead free gas. How many years has that been now, 20? Or more?
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: oil with out zink

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There is no need to have a pissing match over oil. OP had a legitimate question. Everyone can and will use whatever they want and always have!!
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: oil with out zink

Rotella was reformualted too. I stopped using it. I now use Lucas Hotrod Oil. Valvoline racing oil is good too. Flat tappets on the camshaft are the area of concern.
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: oil with out zink

In the end, make the best decision you can. Its your car.
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Old 09-03-2020, 08:57 PM   #29
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In the end, make the best decision you can. Its your car.
Yes!!
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Old 09-04-2020, 07:53 AM   #30
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Default Re: oil with out zink

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I just can't seem to deal with all of this oil controversy. I am still trying to come to grips with all of the engines that are going to fail from using lead free gas. How many years has that been now, 20? Or more?
Yup, the 351C in my 36 has 140K that I put on it and it was a junk yard 72 Ranchero engine with unknown miles on it. I gave it a rattle can overhaul, added a 4bbl and have run the crap out of it since. And by the way, the oil that goes in is NAPA 20W-40 with no issues. It gives 16 - 17 MPG, runs smooth but does use about a quart every 1K miles. No smoke, no leaks, just a well worn engine that has never left me sit.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:54 AM   #31
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Default Re: oil with out zink

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Originally Posted by 54vicky View Post
before you go pounding your chest thinking you enlightened the world about the big bad oil companies ruining your engine what damage did it do to your lifter that it did not take out your cam?Paul pointed you to a discussion that explained their results.you have the right to disagree with it if you can bring forward evidence to dispute the results by all mans do so.but to say it ruined your 1971 6 cylinder by doing something to your lifter that miraculously did not harm your cam I find hard to believe.your quote about what you read also applies to your story I was sure that your engine used hydraulic lifters and does not apply as the oil they were talking about was aimed at solid lifters and heavy spring pressure
Whoa man, I didn't think I was pounding on my chest and I believe the oil companies are doing the best they can with the demand that car companies are putting on them because "big bad" government (EPA) wanted the cat converters to last longer and had car companies to warrent them for longer.
My cam WAS damaged--scoured, but it was either fix my truck or get a tricycle to ride 20 miles to work. I HAD to make this work and hope between the zddp for the cam and the wix filter for any grit left behind maybe things will be alright. I have a newer 6cyl that is supposed to run and have now been given a V8 that does run. No I didn't pull the oil pan because I had a limited time period to do this and this simple job turned into a all nighter and a good part of the next day. I drove it and it started ticking again and missing on a cylinder, so I added the zddp and tore into it again about a week later and now it runs as good as it ever did or better--thank GOD. I did pour oil through it to flush it out and carefully clean the top half of the head, the area around the lifters and the lifter bores and pre-assemble lube the stew out of the lifters-especially the 2 new ones and where the damaged one was in which I put one of the originals.
Will it hold up to what I did? So far, so good and maybe the filter won't stop up with particles. The camshaft cut a curvered area into the lifter about 1/8 of an inch. Cam looked scoured, but felt smooth. Broke it in alternating between 2500-3500 rpm (a guess) for a few minutes. Tapped bad at first, but smoothed out real good.
That thar is the rest of the story and I left it out to keep my long posts from being longer.
I know I should have tore it all the way down, cleaned it and replaced some more parts, but making only $8.25 an hour, I did what I could with what money and time I had. All pressure lubrication goes through the oil filter and the cam lobes are splashed lubed. Most of the grit I hope wound up in the grooves around the head bolts and wasn't there as bad when I changed the valve cover gasket a few months before. That pennzoil was slinging better than I have ever seem ANY vehicle sling oil when running it with the valve cover off. Yes, it was lubricating like crazy and this STILL happened. Yes, my rpms were low and it was slinging some oil slap dab over the fender and even coated the inside fender well. Pennzoil is a good oil, but with stuff missing in it, it is no better than any other brand. It still smells good though. Yes, I'm weird--I like to sniff my oil before putting it in the engine.
Ol oil sniffer says--peace y'all
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