Engine Won't Fit

[denniskliesen]

Is this frame a 31? Your rear mounts appear to be correct looking at the first picture. If memory serves me correct, there were small tube spacers in the 3 holes either between the engine mount and frame or on the outside of the frame between the plate and frame with the rubber pad between. The only other thing could be the rivet holes were different on your crossmembers.

[Tom Wesenberg]

It won't affect the fore and aft position, but the rubber pad for the outside of the rear motor mount looks a bit thick. Some have mentioned that pads are too thick from some of the dealers, and I've mentioned that the last two sets of pads I bought from Snyder's have been a perfect fit.

BTW, I got my new Bratton's catalog a few weeks ago, but still no Snyder's. I'll have to give them a call.

[Dave1931Pickup]

I had not mentioned that I have tried two different front engine mounts. One forged one and and my original stamped steel one which is correct for for my '31. I have compared both and there is only 1/16" difference between the stud location. The rear rubber mounts are new from Brattons and are a little thick but I only had to spread the frame 1/8" with a porta power for the flywheel housing to slip in. When the porta power was released almost all of the 1/8" disappeared. The rear mounts have new steel spacers in them so that is not any part of the problem.

BTW I received both Brattons and Snyders catalogs on the same day.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Dave1931Pickup

...BTW I received both Brattons and Snyders catalogs on the same day.

Same here. Also noticed that they were both printed by the same print shop.

[SeaSlugs]

when i slipped my engine in my AA i mounted the yoke to the timing cover but left the bolts a few turns loose so i could pull it forward and back. I got the top two rear mount bolts in and let it pivot down on those. More often than not the rear mounts cracked and were welded - were they straightened prior to welding? who knows...

My new to me yoke in my bolted in new to me crossmember with new to me rear mounts and new to me engine all came together like a big puzzle with little issue...

is your timing cover mounting ears flat? I had to grind the paint off my cover and the top of the yoke as its a tight fit so maybe your paint is preventing the yoke from sitting 100% flat against the ears. That would prevent it from sitting flush for sure and make things appear "bent" or not located correctly. Hover the engine above the frame, and bolt the yoke up and examine if its 100% flat and square against the ears!

[VFRhugh]

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Dave,
I've been following this thread for awhile and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the wishbone fitment. It's not just the front and rear motor mount but the wishbone ball and socket that all have to align. If the cross member hole is off the wishbone ball should be off the same amount on the flywheel housing.
Hugh

[Fred K-OR]

Do you have the correct front cross member? If I remember correctly, the 1928/29 were different than the 1930/31.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Do you have the correct front cross member? If I remember correctly, the 1928/29 were different than the 1930/31.

only difference is the height in the radiator mounting area - dimensions are exactly the same.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

Is this frame a 31? Your rear mounts appear to be correct looking at the first picture. If memory serves me correct, there were small tube spacers in the 3 holes either between the engine mount and frame or on the outside of the frame between the plate and frame with the rubber pad between. The only other thing could be the rivet holes were different on your crossmembers.

I have seen in the Parts Price List the spacers (A5093) and their application years (1928-31)

But I can't see anything in my literature about installing these, or what the purpose is. Rick Freeman (1970s guide) and Les Andrews (2000s guide) say nothing about assembling these.

Well, actually I think I know the purpose: to prevent the three bracket to frame bolts from "crushing" the rubber and making what should be a resilient mount into a solid mount? Thus the rear engine mount brackets become more a part of the motor than a part of the frame (and kind of hints at the fallacy of "float-a-motor" which tend to transfer motor torque loading to the frame center cross member.)

Does anyone have experience or documentation for these? My frame was "reconditioned" with Naval Jelly and a paintbrush and without removing the engine supports.

Joe K

[duke36]

Can you provide a photo of the front yoke ? see post 17. Perhaps someone can provide you some dimensions of the front cross member to rear motor mounts or other frame elements or the original frame factory dwg.

[Dave1931Pickup]

Sorry for the slow response to every one for all of your suggestions. Real work, the kind you get paid for, and the death of a friend when a tree fell on him has slowed my progress.The problem has been solved. The rear motor mount pads were purchased from Brattons. They advertise them as being made to the Ford blueprint. I'm not going to argue as to whether Brattons or Snyders are are more correct. I'm sure both are good.

Here is what I found and the mistake I made. When I originally installed the rear motor mounts I bolted them in tight. By doing so the new rubber pads caused the motor mounts to become skewed in the frame causing the the holes to not line up with the threaded holes in the flywheel housing.

The fix was real easy. loosen up the rear motor mount bolts to the frame so the mounts can float and allow every thing to bolt together. I also loosened the front engine mount bolts to allow for more freedom when dropping in the engine. After everything was bolted together loosely and the engine in position I tightened all of the bolts.

Attached is a picture comparing the stud position of the two styles of the front engine mount. Not much difference. Even though I like the forged version better I used the stamped steel one because it it correct for my '31.

Once again thanks for every ones help, Dave

[Dick Steinkamp]

Your wife is going to be angry when she finds that Model A chassis on the kitchen floor...

[Tom Wesenberg]

Your frame & engine look beautiful.
I would have swore that the problem is your shop is just too clean.

Good idea having those orange cones on the leg busters.

Are you going to use the 4 blade fan? Some guys have had blades break on them.

Not too bad for just your chassis and engine, but I got rid of all my stamped steel 3 leg jack stands years ago, after one collapsed on me. Plus, they aren't near as stable as the heavy 4 leg stands. I now have several 4 leg stands with the cast post that ratchets up.

[mike657894]

something my dad always says " don't tighten the first bolt until the last one is in" [in a series or part group not a whole car]

[Big hammer]

Good for you! I was going to post something, reread what I was going to post, then decided that my post would get me some timeout. Your project and your shop look too nice, I can help you mess it up :-)

[CarlG]

I would only echo what others have said about your great job and clean shop. I would, however, caution you on the use of that style/type of jack stand. They have a great history of failing at the time least expected.

[RUNNERBUN]

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

Do you have the correct front cross member? If I remember correctly, the 1928/29 were different than the 1930/31.

I was under the same impression. Somewhere in the deep recesses of my brain I seem to recall that there was a difference between the 28/29 & 30/31 and not only in the radiator mount position. Maybe the rivot points did also differ.
If someone has both a known 28/29 and 30/31 chassis that are bare can take accurate measurements to confirm one way or the other.
PS: I would be dead meat if I tried to bring my projects into the house. Wish you luck with your project. The standard of your work looks magnificent.

[Dave1931Pickup]

The entire chassis and running gear minus any body or sheet metal have been sitting on those jack stands for fifty years so at this point in time I think they will hold a bare frame and engine for a little longer. Besides the new coat of paint should hold them together for another fifty.

Thanks for all of the good comments on my work. The resto has been a long time coming.

BTW, my wife is accustomed to having race engines in the living room for coffee tables and spare parts in the bedroom for storage.

Thanks, Dave

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Dave1931Pickup

I still suspect the hole in the front crossmember is in the wrong position. Attached are some pictures of it and the rear motor mounts which I believe are mounted correctly. The hole in the front crossmember is very close to the rear vertical flange. It is hard to get a good measurement because of the curved area between the vertical flange and the hole but it is somewhere between 11/16" and 3/4" from the inside of the flange to the center of the hole.
Thanks for every ones help, Dave

Looks perfect.

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by Dave1931Pickup

The entire chassis and running gear minus any body or sheet metal have been sitting on those jack stands for fifty years so at this point in time I think they will hold a bare frame and engine for a little longer. Besides the new coat of paint should hold them together for another fifty.

Thanks for all of the good comments on my work. The resto has been a long time coming.

BTW, my wife is accustomed to having race engines in the living room for coffee tables and spare parts in the bedroom for storage.

Thanks, Dave

You better hang onto that wife! spare parts in the bedroom... that's unheard of.