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05-16-2014, 10:43 AM | #1 |
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Ugly engine peeve
A pet peeve. Before buying our '31 roadster last year, I looked at 100 or so photos of A's for sale and still enjoy looking. So many of these cars have beautiful exteriors and interiors which obviously required a lot of time and money to restore. However, many had engines looking like they were never touched....rust all over them, wires hanging, faded paint and just plain unkept in general. Also, many of the photos of these beautiful cars had no pics of the engine compartments at all, which is telling in itself.
Why do people spend so much attention to the exterior and not seem to care about the heart of the machine? It doesn't take much time, money or expertise to get an engine looking pretty. Perhaps the photos I looked at were from non A owners or dealers with little pride in their cars, just wanting them to look nice for sale. Aside from owners of survivor cars or restos in progress, do Ford Barn A guys and gals generally keep their engines looking nice or are under hood cosmetics not a concern to most? Am I being overly picky in liking a nice looking engine and not caring as much about the exterior? Thanks for listening to my ranting...........Glen
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'31 Model A Deluxe Roadster '31 Chrysler Model 70 Sedan '88 Pontiac Fiero GT '36 Auburn Boattail Speedster replica |
05-16-2014, 11:13 AM | #2 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Agree with you completely.
Had the same impressions when shopping for a car a couple years ago. I keep the engine bay on my car just as beautiful as it's interior and exterior. Why? Just plain out of respect. The chassis and undercarriage is also just as cleaned and waxed. Same reason. |
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05-16-2014, 11:30 AM | #3 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
And, on a related matter, I wish more owners would open the hoods of their Model A's at car shows.
In fairness, I suppose the general viewing public has little interest in what's under the hood, but I suspect many - especially those of us who work on our engines - are as interested in what the engine compartment looks like as what the passenger compartment does. This interest is frustrated by owners frequently not being near their cars (to ask to open the hood). They're probably off looking at other's cars (if not other's engines...). And this tendency to keep the hood closed on Model A's (which may just be my perception) apparently does not extend to the 50's/60's/70's owners, who are usually only too happy to throw open their hoods and showcase all the painted, chromed and polished attributes of their engine. Maybe it's power-plant envy...
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05-16-2014, 11:43 AM | #4 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Unbelievable!!! I had no idea anybody but me thought this way.
I had always wanted to post this exact rant, but thought I was the only geek that noticed. Thank you for posting! But... I asked one geeky dude if he ever cleaned up the chassis. I expected an odd look. But he said oh, yeah! So they are out there...
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05-16-2014, 11:47 AM | #5 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I sometimes keep the hood closed, sometimes open. It all depends on the venue. I never hesitate to open it when asked.
Whenever I do leave it open, I can always depend on getting some negative remarks about the "non original" status of some items on my engine. It always seems to come from the same guys that Oooo & Aaaa over the totally rodded specimens in the next row. Go figure!
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05-16-2014, 11:57 AM | #6 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
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05-16-2014, 12:04 PM | #7 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
My engines need attention. It is just a matter of time. I will get to it, but I want them operating properly and reliably first, cosmetics later.
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05-16-2014, 12:29 PM | #8 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I don't worry about pretty paint, but it is nice to keep the mechanicals fairly free from a lot of dirt and old grease build up. I used WD-40, diesel, gas, and a soft paint brush to clean the engine and firewall on my 28. They're much nicer to work on when they are clean, and the engine can cool better if it's clean. The carb is still the same PACTRA Aero Gloss Jet Black that I put on 15 years ago when I restored the carb. It's held up well.
I wipe the engine and firewall with a bit of oil from time to time to keep the rust away. Once cleaned, the engine compartment is easy to keep clean. The firewall is the original gunmetal blue paint and the engine is a well worn temporary while I rebuild the original in my basement. Everything will get new paint when I restore the car. My first car engine overhaul was the 6 cylinder in my 1955 Chevrolet and after I painted the engine I used to wax it. It was a nice clean engine until my neighbor thought it would be funny to switch the plug wires around, which took out some rod bearings. |
05-16-2014, 12:52 PM | #9 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
On my cars the engine is clean no grease or oil or rubber bands, wire or ty-raps.
The paint maybe missing or old. Now if I rebuild a part it does get painted. |
05-16-2014, 12:59 PM | #10 |
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Amen....
Not only dirty engines on a car for sale, but how about when they fill the back seat with dirty cardboard, big fluffy pillows, dolls... or they've taken the pictures without enough light to see anything clearly.
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05-16-2014, 01:00 PM | #11 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Maybe we should consider a less than pristine engine compartment the sign of a well used Model A and not a trailer queen.....
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05-16-2014, 01:08 PM | #12 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I always leave the hood open on my roadster at car shows. It may not be politically correct but more people seem to be more interested in my dual updraft setup than the model A's that are politically correct.The exhaust manifold shows some character with a few pits but its level and that is what counts most to me.
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 05-16-2014 at 01:13 PM. |
05-16-2014, 01:08 PM | #13 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Hi Glen,
FWIW: Maybe one reason that engines & undercarriages get overlooked is because nobody does this for a living like that of paint & body work where one can get this done in shops in almost all neighborhoods. Over 97% of the work involved with painting undercarriages & engine compartment items etc. is the time & effort spent to properly degrease, remove rust, kill rust, & prepare metal surfaces of the engine, transmission, torque tube, differential, axle housings, chassis, springs, & all under carriage. Indeed a very time consuming task not tackled by every Model A owner. Applying final coatings after preparation is only about 3% or even sometimes far less of the time involved. The final coating product chosen is always the most important decision when one wants to consider durability & longevity, especially in high humidity areas. If anyone in a high humidity area has little or no time to tinker with touch-up painting, or repeating the most time consuming cleaning, de-rusting, preparing surfaces, & repainting task after 20 or so years, one may want to consider reading & following "all" recommended instructions to the letter for POR 15 Coating Products. Whether one is applying coatings on wood, steel, plastic, or any other surface, the first coat is "always" the first coat to lift off & fail in most cases because of moisture penetration, again in high humidity areas; however, this is where POR 15 Coatings has the leading edge in coatings technology. Once POR products are applied by following strict manufacturer's instructions to the letter, any type of flat, egg shell, or glossy coatings may be applied on top to match original Model A sheen. POR 15 Tie Coat Primer is formulated for this task. If one applies the initial POR 15 coating followed by POR 15 engine enamel, even the head/engine joint at the head gasket will not rust as it does with other engine enamels. If one lives in a coastal region, or a high humidity area, POR 15 coatings are excellent. If one lives in a more arid region, POR 15 may never be required. Just hope this helps a Model A owner if one lives in a humid area where one has limited time to try to prepare rusted surfaces & repaint later. Do it once & the next generation will not have to repeat the process. According to POR technical experts, the people who have the most problems with POR 15 products are professional painters who ignore strict instructions & try to apply POR 15 coatings in the same manner that they use to apply paint. |
05-16-2014, 01:16 PM | #14 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I am going to eventually repaint my engine & accessories. Right now it's acceptable but not pristine. I appreciate H.L.'s suggestions about POR-15 as I live in upstate NY where there's high humidity all the time.
I agree about cars for sale, though. The seller could at least run a bristle brush over the engine after spraying with any one of the numerous cleaners available at auto parts stores. There's no excuse for an oil and dirt encrusted engine - a couple hours and elbow grease takes care of that. A related pet peeve is sellers that post photos of their car outside with weeds growing up through it. I've even seen one rusted hulk for sale for multiple thousands with a bush growing up through the trunk. Ten minutes with a weed wacker and a rag & soapy water bucket would make a great difference in visual appeal. Applicable to both outside and inside, a bit of a clean up makes it much easier to evaluate what is there and what is missing, and how much work needs to be done to it.
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05-16-2014, 01:52 PM | #15 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Hi Huddy,
Again FWIW: What we experience in high humidity coastal areas is not just that the water table is only 12 inches below grade; but, that condensation occurs mostly in the fall & spring even with a Model A that is parked on a concrete slab in an enclosed garage. Cool fall & spring nights cools off the Model A engine in an engine compartment, & undercarriage metal, where next day moist warm air is somewhat trapped where it is trying to rise "upwards". The following day, later higher temperatures with warm humid air condenses on these cool metal surfaces -- similar to walking to a warm outside area with a glass of ice water which immediately gets wet on the "out-side"; however, warm moist air will never cause condensation on the "out-side" of a warm coffee cup; hence, no metal condensation problems in summer where Model A metal does not get cool enough at night. Many days one could easily use up a whole roll of paper towels or two wiping off moisture from inside the somewhat unvented engine compartment, undercarriage areas, & drive train -- this type of constant accumulated dripping moisture mixed with road dust will gradually & eventually find its way through Rustoleum & similar coating products with much different perm penetration ratings & mechanical adhesion ratings than that of POR 15 Coatings. Tops of hoods, fenders, & sheet metal sides do not trap next day "rising" moist warm air; hence, far less moisture accumulation which never appears to cause too much of a "wet" inside of a garage problem & rust problem on exposed tops of sheet metal. Hope this helps a little. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 05-16-2014 at 01:57 PM. Reason: typo |
05-16-2014, 02:02 PM | #16 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I totally agree, few cars i looked at before buying my model a 3 months ago had engines that were neglected.... my model A included but the best i could find for my budget.
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05-16-2014, 03:26 PM | #17 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Other then cleaning thick grease off the engine i see no point in doing much, If the engine is not removed for repairs why would you even try painting it? In the past i have seen people paint engines covered in thick dirt silver with spraycans, now that looks terrible.
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05-16-2014, 03:38 PM | #18 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I once saw this BEAUTIFUL RPUP, for sale on Hemmings, WHY, OH WHY, didn't he take a measly 15 minutes to shine up the engine & the engine room???---Bill W.
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05-16-2014, 04:15 PM | #19 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I've seen plastic bags with canisters that pull the moisture out... for the whole car.
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05-16-2014, 04:46 PM | #20 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
My garage isn't heated or insulated (TBD someday - I have heat but it's pretty much useless without insulation). What I've noticed is that the concrete pad actually gets quite moist in the spring and after extremely heavy rains (like right now). This can't be a good thing. I can't afford temperature and humidity control. The poor car has had to adapt to the change from extremely dry (Mojave desert) to high humidity. I will have to keep a close eye on things. Right now it doesn't have a speck of rust, and I'd like to keep it that way.
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05-16-2014, 04:59 PM | #21 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Observing many cars on Ebay, I too have been struck by many with poor engine bay presentation but also what often looks like amateurish upholstery jobs, often with little reference to the original materials or the original pattern.
Is that due to a lack of knowledgable upholsterers or tight budget restorations? Keith |
05-16-2014, 05:04 PM | #22 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
My Pet Peeve is OPEN HOODS! The last thing I want to look at is what is under your hood, that goes for Hot Rods and Customs as well. Last thing I'd spend money on in a full restoration will be the engine. Cars are to be looked at for their good looks and flowing lines, nothings ruins that look more than an open hood. Bob
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They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical. Last edited by Roadster62; 05-16-2014 at 05:14 PM. |
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05-16-2014, 05:18 PM | #23 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
my pet peeve is closed hoods.
always was more interested in the engine than all else old engines that have that old gassy oil smell are the best that's me fredski |
05-16-2014, 05:19 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Quote:
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05-16-2014, 05:21 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Quote:
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05-16-2014, 05:38 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
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Quote:
At the Lemay America's Car Museum they had a Ferrari exhibit that included a Ferrari F40. I was a kid in the 80's and every 8 year old (myself included) had a Ferrari F40 poster in their room. I've always loved the look of that car and the lines on it. The example in the museum had the rear engine cover (back end) raised up and it COMPLETELY spoiled the look of the car. You could see the engine and twin turbos beneath the louvered rear window anyway and had a better view of the painted valve covers and more attractive parts of the engine rather than the uglier intakes and exposed exhaust. Seeing the car that way made me mad every time I walked past it and they kept it that way for months!
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05-16-2014, 06:08 PM | #27 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
When I looked at the 28 roadster I bought a few weeks ago, it had not been washed, the right front shock link was not attached to the axle and the brakes were so far out of adjustment the car would barely stop. The guy was selling his house and everything and moving back overseas to the country of his birth, so he had lots of other things on his mind besides selling his Model A. It may be a reason I got it so reasonably. Sometimes you can't do it all. Lucky for me, in this case.
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05-16-2014, 06:14 PM | #28 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Quote:
I open the hood of my chevette at shows mostly because A the hood paint is cracking and awful looking and B 90% of the people out there never knew they were rwd so when they look and its setup like a truck or big body car it throws em for a loop. gotta admit about model A's im on the fence about if i like it open or not. Right now i like em closed at shows just because my engines been on a stand in the garage for years now so i know what it looks like left right upside-down inside out lol i just recently bought a hood and cab so i can see the picture coming together now. and realizing its gonna have a hard time fitting in the garage...
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05-16-2014, 07:49 PM | #29 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I have two car shows in the next few weeks (4th Annual Shearer Charter School Auto Show in Napa tomorrow and the 24th Annual Father's Day Invitational Auto Show in Yountville).
After reading some of the responses above, I thought I might split the difference and leave one side of the hood open and the other closed... Then what passes out here for sanity returned and I recalled the words of Ricky Nelson: "But it's all right now, I've learned my lesson well. You see, you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." The hood will remain fully open. If anyone doesn't like it and says anything about some of the modifications I've made (see another recent thread on running without an oil return pipe) I'll have only two words for them. And they won't be "Happy Birthday"...
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05-16-2014, 08:22 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Quote:
Even if you just have a plastic Round Top garage, I'd still lay down plastic and cover it with free used carpet. Last summer I looked at a 1950 Studebaker in northern Minnesota. It was parked in a tin shed with no vents in the middle of the woods for 10 years. He also covered the car with plastic. The complete interior was so moldy and rotten you needed a gas mask to stick your head inside. The engine was locked up and the complete bottom of the car and frame was rusted away. It still sold for $1000 because it had some nice chrome parts. |
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05-16-2014, 08:29 PM | #31 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Delete double post.
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05-16-2014, 09:07 PM | #32 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
I prefer to leave my hood closed. I like to let kids or anyone else that wants to sit in my truck to go ahead and do so. As long as they don't have an ice cream cone or a screw driver sticking out of their back pocket they can climb on in. People really enjoy taking pictures of their kids in my truck so having the hood down makes better pictures. The engine is one of the nicer looking parts of my truck. If people want to look under the hood I'll open it up.
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05-16-2014, 09:17 PM | #33 |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
All my A's have hood tops and no sides. Best of both worlds! Engine is painted genuine ford blue instead of green.
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05-16-2014, 11:52 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Ugly engine peeve
Quote:
Now if you mask the rest of the engine and spray that whole valve cover with WD40 it will be a uniform colour?
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<Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable |
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