Condenser

[42guy]

My foggy 80+ memory needs to know if a condenser is either good or bad. They don't weaken do they?

[petehoovie]

Yes, they do weaken.

Good read here > http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/

and > https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ll-now.528174/

[tubman]

There is a guy on the H.A.M.B. that also dissected some failed condensers, and he came to the same conclusion as is outlined in the first link "petehoovey" posted.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by 42guy

My foggy 80+ memory needs to know if a condenser is either good or bad. They don't weaken do they?

The condenser is like a roll of film. It is a layer of foil with paper
saturated with electrolitic paste. The paste dries out and no longer
holds a charge. Try to look in past posts for several posts I made
describing how to test condensers. You can test them with a anolog
volt ohm meter. The more they dry out the less voltage they store.
The spark gets weaker and by jumping a plug wire to a head the
type of spark changes. A good spark is blue with a crisp spark that
jumps 1/2" from a plug wire to the head. The weaker the spark
the less distance it jumps and turns to a yellow spark that gets down
to a fuzzy yellow small ball that don't have enough power at the
spark plug to light the gas. They are also effected by heat, the hotter
they get the weaker the spark. When they get real weak the
compression blows the spark out. G.M.

[marko39]

It is wise to stay away from nos or nors condensers as most will be no good. I had several nors bought over the years at swap meets and a nos one I got on eBay for 5 bucks (could not resist) I tested them on my sun machine and all were bad. I thought tester was faulty until I got a new Napa one and it tested fine.

[Paul Bennett]

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When a condenser looses it's capacitance, the points will start to go bad. If the points stay without pitting, ignore the cap. If you choose to change the points, change the capacitor as well. They are both relatively cheap.

[rotorwrench]

The ones with foil and mylar make a good cap but the way things are connected inside most condensers is a big part of the problem. They will use a wave washer in the bottom of the little can as a spring to hold tension on the cap and eventually it looses tension which creates arcing at the pigtail connection. Basically, they just don't give a crap if they work with good reliability or not. Some don't even have a wave washer in there.

It's a sad state of affairs but there isn't much folks can do other than substitute modern electronics for old tech. Tubman knows what it takes to make a good condenser. About the only other is the Vertex magneto caps or aircraft magneto caps but they are getting expensive like everything else.

[jimvette59]

I have two NOS capacitors do you think they will go bad just sitting ?

[Jack E/NJ]

jv59>>>I have two NOS capacitors do you think they will go bad just sitting ?>>>


Shelf-life? Here's a pile of gently used condensers from $3 tune-up kits sold in the 60s. Probably most from Zayres & TwoGuys. All except one have been sitting in attics ever since. That one, picked at random, has been on my helmet since 2010. Less than 10K but not a hint yet that points need checking. Stock chrysler coil & ballast with no bypass. The shiny brass one on the right is the real McMallory, not a fake like Tubman peddles. 8^) It was also $3 from WesternAuto. Like a treasured heirloom, it's tastefully displayed in a fine china cabinet and kept polished. Jack E/NJ

[nutter_Ford_guy]

I had a condensr go from working correctly to the car hardly able to run in a half mile! It seemed that the slow engine speed was affected the most. Jerky, back fire, no power. Put in another condenser, nothing else, been a good 5 years since it happened.

[tubman]

"Jack E/NJ" - I feel I must respond to your statement "not a fake like Tubman peddles". I have always stated that mine were were designed to be replacements when the originals become unavailable. I have NEVER tried to pass them off as originals, and never would, as mine are clearly superior to any of the originals out there. I can't see the one in your picture clearly, but if it is like almost others out there, it probably has a split or two in the case. In addition, a condenser should be "tuned" to the coil being used, and mine are much closer to the proper value for a modern coil than the original Mallory's.

Keep yours "a treasured heirloom, [it's] tastefully displayed in a fine china cabinet and kept polished". That's where it belongs. If you need something to run reliably with an aftermarket performance ignition (or even a well tuned stock unit), feel free to get in touch with me.

[Jack E/NJ]

>>> it probably has a split or two in the case>>>.mine are much closer to the proper value for a modern coil than the original Mallory's.>>>


Mallory not split yet. That's why I'm keeping it in the china cabinet. Now polished about once a year with Nevr-Dull as its mirror-like finish seems to last longer than Brasso. I'm sure your's are much closer to the proper μF value for my chrysler coil. Another reason for not trying to use my old Mallory heirloom. 8^) Jack E/NJ

[rotorwrench]

If you open up some of the old condensers from say 1980 on back depending on the brand, you may find that the capacitor insulation is wax paper instead of the mylar film used now days. Some of the metalized strips were paper coated with a metallic substance instead of metal foil. These old materials do deteriorate with time. Poor storage conditions can speed up the deterioration process.

It's kind of a crap shoot, trying to use old original stuff and especially if it was a cheap brand to begin with. Don't pull too hard on the pigtail. It might come off in your hand. I've had it happen on several occasions.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by G.M.

The condenser is like a roll of film. It is a layer of foil with paper
saturated with electrolitic paste. The paste dries out and no longer
holds a charge. Try to look in past posts for several posts I made
describing how to test condensers. You can test them with a anolog
volt ohm meter. The more they dry out the less voltage they store.
The spark gets weaker and by jumping a plug wire to a head the
type of spark changes. A good spark is blue with a crisp spark that
jumps 1/2" from a plug wire to the head. The weaker the spark
the less distance it jumps and turns to a yellow spark that gets down
to a fuzzy yellow small ball that don't have enough power at the
spark plug to light the gas. They are also effected by heat, the hotter
they get the weaker the spark. When they get real weak the
compression blows the spark out. G.M.

G.M.,
Thanks for the information, as I never considered that. I am installing a new Echlin (ECH FA76) in my 53' Merc, to see if it makeds a diffrfence.

[STAN WHITE]

TUBMAN. i AM INTERESTED IN YOUR CONDENSERS. I AM RUNNING A HARMEN& COLLINS DUAL COIL DISTRIBUTOR. I WILL BE GOING TO 12 VOLTS NEG GROUND. I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL ISSUES. I WOULD LIKE TO RUN COILS WITH A BUILT IN RESISTORS. I WOULD LIKE YOUR OPINION. I WOULD LIKE TO RUN YOUR CONDENSERS. I HAVE THREE H&C DISTRIBUTORS. ONE I LAST RAN IN 89 THE OTHER TWO ARE NEW IN THE BOX. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE CONDENSERS SHOULD BE REPLACED EVEN IF THEY ARE NEW. MORE THAN LIKELY 60 YEARS OLD. THANKS STAN WHITE 775 265 5333

[tubman]

Stan,

I sent you a PM. Here is the picture I reference in it.

Denny

[KGS]

Denny, Are you still working on a condenser for
the "Helmet" distributor?

[corvette8n]

Here’s my helmet with Denny’s condenser.

[KenBolton]

What’s the deal with replacement condensers not fitting inside the distributor?

[rotorwrench]

Ford used them internally for the Model A cars and had problems with them due to the heat there right next to the exhaust manifold. For the V8 distributors, they were placed on the outside and stayed this way till the 8BA era. It was common for them to be external in the early V8 era. They should be close to the breaker points but they can be somewhat remote and still function normally.

Mallory used them externally in the aftermarket field for a very long time.

[tubman]

The '33-'36 condensers are still in field test.

As to the Mallory's (and mine) not fitting into the distributor, you have to realize that these were developed principally for use in after market or conversion dual point units. In a conventional "post-type" dual point distributor, the second set of points sits right where the condenser usually is. Thus, they had to mount the condensers externally.

My condensers are .22 micro-farads where the original Mallory units were .36 micro-farads. A condenser and coil are a tuned pair, and the capacitance of the coil should match the inductance of the coil. With all of the varieties of coils out there, it is very difficult to get an exact match between the coil and condenser. Fortunately, "close" counts in condensers, as well as horseshoes and hand grenades, and most modern coils are best used with a condenser with a capacitance in the low .20's micro-farads. In reality it really doesn't matter very much because the tuned circuit is quite forgiving. I have a period Ford publication that states that too low a capacitance can accelerate point wear while too high can affect performance adversely.

Lately, I have been selling some of my "trash cans" for use on "crab" and "rabbit-ear" distributors. Since most of these cars are running modern coils, the "trash can" is a good match. While they are not "concourse correct", they work well and add a bit of "hot rod panache" to the units. Here are a couple of examples supplied by some of my customers. And of course, from "corvette8n"'s photo, you can see how they mount to a "helmet".

[40cpe]

Is the size of your condenser necessitated by the construction or for nostalgia look?

[coolcoupe]

In your recent post you mentioned that since most are using modern coils with your condenser it would work fine. If I was to install your condenser and using my original type
coil would it work fine also ?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by coolcoupe

In your recent post you mentioned that since most are using modern coils with your condenser it would work fine. If I was to install your condenser and using my original type
coil would it work fine also ?

In my experience, it should run fine. The points life may be shortened 10%-20%, which really isn't a problem for most of us the way these cars are used. (BTW, I am assuming here that you were referring to your avatar.)

I notice you said "original type coil". The above statement applies to original coils only. If it's a "Skip's coil", I would classify it as a modern coil.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

Is the size of your condenser necessitated by the construction or for nostalgia look?

Mainly by the construction. The case is about the smallest that will hold the modern capacitor I am using.

Given the sad state of the currently available commercial condensers, the main purpose was to come up with something that was dead stone reliable, which these have proven to be.

[coolcoupe]

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It is a Skip's coil.

[STAN WHITE]

Denny I received your reply. I was going to try and post some pictures but did not know how. In the process I started reading post about problems that the Barn was having with guys on the forum that did not have Stock early Ford V/8s. I did not know that I thought that a car like mine would be OK. replied on page 9 of the posts. I would like you to read it. I wish I could call you as I have a couple of Questions I would like you to answer. If you would call me am in Nevada. my number is 775 265 5333. or kodiakpaw@ charter.net Thanks Stan

[tubman]

I'll call you tomorrow, Stan. I am retired so it can be any time. Are you in the Pacific or Mountain time zone? I'd like to call in the morning, about 10 your time if that's OK.

[STAN WHITE]

Denny pacific time zone. Look forward to your call. Stan

[tubman]

I'm CST, so that means I will call at 12 noon my time,

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by STAN WHITE

...I started reading post about problems that the Barn was having with guys on the forum that did not have Stock early Ford V/8s. I did not know that I thought that a car like mine would be OK.

A lot of the guys on the Barn know about, work on & own completely stock flathead era V8s AND modified early Fords. The Barn is dictated to the former, but is very tolerant to the later as well.

You will find support here! If it gets deep into the modified category there is also the sister site, the HAMB dictated to early Hot Rods and modified vehicles. But many of us find the Barn a little slower paced and a knowledge base that can't be beat. Modified flatheads are still flatheads! And even with engine and driveline changes they are still Ford bodies.

[STAN WHITE]

Thank you Jerry, Looks like I will stick around. I feel better now after your comment. Stan

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by coolcoupe

It is a Skip's coil.

Use a IH-200 condenser from NAPA. Skip has 100's
of people using these for over 20 years with no point
problems .G.M.

[JSeery]

Stan White photos. Looks like a Barn car to me!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Stan White photos. Looks like a Barn car to me!

[STAN WHITE]

Thanks Jerry. Stan

[40cpe]

Definitely Fordbarn eligible! Nice car, keep us posted on your progress.

[STAN WHITE]

1934 3WDW I new of this car in the 60s said I was interested in it, said he would call if he decided to sell it. He called 25 yrs later around 1086. I thought if I dont buy it I will regret it down the road. I bought it and just started to do it in the last year. Have had it for 35 yrs. I looked for a car like this in the late 50s could not find one then. This car is above average , no rust no mods of any kind. Original paint including whats left of the striping. I am doing the car as I remember them in the early 50s. They were called sleepers in those days. Just looks like a nice original car, Sits a little different, that was the idea. But performed much better and stopped much better tha stock. Its what a hot rod was in 1952. Dont remember any Rat Rods in those days. Truly Stan white

[leon bee]

Stan that is a great car.

[old31]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

OHHHH, that is pretty.

[Merc Cruzer]

Since we are talking condensers here, anyone know who the manufacture of this one is. I am not familiar with the markings\symbol on the bottom. I have two of them, serving as back up.