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Old 05-23-2021, 05:10 PM   #1
wwirz
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Default Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I was out on a 90+ degree day the other day. As the car warmed up the ability to shift cleanly (no grinding) became more difficult.
The following day, I got the car up on the lift to check the oil level in the transmission. The oil level was up to the mark..BUT...the oil was aerated or frothy. In my professional career I would never have suggested that aerated oil was a good thing. I drained the oil out in a coffee can and changed the oil. 1 day later, air bubbles were still entrained in the oil.
I purchased the 600W oil from one of our Model A distributors. I had some 600W that was in a closed, unopened, quart can that was in the car when I bought it. The oil in the metal can was darker, and seemed more viscous.
So now for the questions:
1. Has anyone else noticed this oil aeration? Is this normal?
2. Does shifting become a little more "grindie" as the car gets hotter? I have noticed similar in another model A I was allowed to drive.
3. Is there a real "sticky" oil that is proven to work maybe better than 600W?
All of the 600W oils I used are to the M-533 spec I noticed

Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-23-2021, 05:41 PM   #2
Tom Endy
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I have seen this before. The 600W the suppliers sell is different from supplier to supplier. I have always preferred the 600W Bratton's sell. It is clearer and I am told it has 25% TSP in it.

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Old 05-23-2021, 05:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Just for fun check the transmission vent.

Enjoy.
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Old 05-23-2021, 06:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Endy View Post
I have seen this before. The 600W the suppliers sell is different from supplier to supplier. I have always preferred the 600W Bratton's sell. It is clearer and I am told it has 25% TSP in it.

Tom Endy
TSP? Trisodium Phosphate?
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Old 05-23-2021, 06:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

wwirz,

You might try 180 wt gear lube from a major manufacturer as Ford did in 1932.

The rest is up to you, Yes these cars operate differently in each season. You want to hear grinding, try shifting from 1st to 2nd in February where you live.

The fun is becoming proficient, practice, practice...... enjoy the 'drive'.

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Old 05-23-2021, 06:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Just for fun check the transmission vent.

Enjoy.
Check out this thread for a "where it is and how to clean it".

https://www.vintagefordforum.net/for...nsmission-vent
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I read somewhere that 600W foaming was normal, and that it was ok to use 85/180 or
heavier oil in the trans, rear, and steering box. To me it kind of make sense to use the
modern heavy oil. "But what do I know"?
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I'm hoping he meant STP and not TSP!
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:20 PM   #9
The Master Cylinder
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvee34 View Post
I read somewhere that 600W foaming was normal, and that it was ok to use 85/180 or
heavier oil in the trans, rear, and steering box. To me it kind of make sense to use the
modern heavy oil. "But what do I know"?
Where do you find 85/180 oil? All I can find around here is 85W-140.

I use 85W-140 in my trans because I also use it in my Mitchell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshkoro View Post
I'm hoping he meant STP and not TSP!
I'm sure he did.
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder View Post
Where do you find 85/180 oil? All I can find around here is 85W-140.

I use 85W-140 in my trans because I also use it in my Mitchell.



I'm sure he did.
Sorry for the typo, Meant 85W-140 "guess I was never to forget every thing
I remember"
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Old 05-23-2021, 08:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceincam View Post
Check out this thread for a "where it is and how to clean it".

https://www.vintagefordforum.net/for...nsmission-vent
The link was not working, here it is again, just in case.
https://www.vintagefordforum.net/for...nsmission-vent
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image_17673.jpg (5.9 KB, 202 views)
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Mitchell says to use the 85W-140 GL-5 oil in their overdrive and their transmission. You are going to get different opinions from different people about which oil to use. My understanding is that the 600W designation does not mean 600 weight. I also understand that the modern 85W-140 GL-5 is about the same viscosity as 600W but multiple grade so that it will work like 140 weight when the transmission is warm and 85 weight when the transmission is cold. The 85W-140 GL-5 is reported to hold up better under high loads than the 600W. I don't know about foaming.
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

WWirz,

My original post should have read 140 wt.

Also check for the correct adjustment on your clutch and too high an idle speed will not allow the gears to slow between shifts.

Learning how & when to shift is the 'art' of driving these cars.
Putting running shoes on Grandpa isn't going to make him faster. It's you who must learn to adapt.
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Old 05-24-2021, 04:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

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Putting running shoes on Grandpa isn't going to make him faster. It's you who must learn to adapt.
Thatís a great analogy. :-)


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Old 05-24-2021, 05:01 AM   #15
wwirz
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Thank you for all of the feedback. I will try the 85W-140 GL-5 oil. I like the idea that this oil is multi viscosity....seems to make sense you would want an oil like this if temperature is the issue. Downshifting is not an issue. I will also play with the idle.

Thanks again. I will let you know how I make out.
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Old 05-24-2021, 05:17 AM   #16
wwirz
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I was just on the Brattons site for the 600W. They indicate that the oil is roughly a 140W and with anti foaming and anti rust additives. The anti foam additive is interesting.
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Old 05-24-2021, 05:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Try to find 140 weight or 250 weight. I don't see much difference in usage between the two.
I've had foaming issues with what is sold by the vendors.
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Old 05-24-2021, 03:12 PM   #18
wwirz
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by burner31 View Post
The link was not working, here it is again, just in case.
https://www.vintagefordforum.net/for...nsmission-vent
Found the hole on my tower. Easier to get to with the floor boards out. Made sure it was open nonetheless. Thank you
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Old 05-24-2021, 03:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwirz View Post
I was just on the Brattons site for the 600W. They indicate that the oil is roughly a 140W and with anti foaming and anti rust additives. The anti foam additive is interesting.
It certainly foamed in my transmission!!
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Old 05-24-2021, 04:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

This chart has been posted before when oil subjects come up. I use Lucas 85W-140 in my trans and Mitchell and Meropa 1500 in the rear end

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Old 05-24-2021, 11:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

100 percent lucas oil stabilizer in my A transmission. Smooth as silk. Definitely made shifting easy, had some of the vendor 600w in it, foams up, terrible fade.
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:35 PM   #22
wwirz
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

Seems like the main source of the grinding was that the idle was set too high on the column. The tranny is happier now...even on a hot day. Thank you. Sometimes the little things add up......
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Old 05-27-2021, 10:18 AM   #23
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Default Re: Slight Grinding when shifting - transmission oil Aerated

I have had the aeration problem in a newly rebuilt transmission using the so called 600W oil. Anything with a 600W label on it cannot be trusted. SAE 75W140 Gear oil is the way to go for the Model A's transmission and differential.
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