Oil debate numbers

[Frank Miller]

I put this on my trip thread but thought I'd share it in a,stand alone. This is bone stock with about 30k, running a 30% overdrive. Partial flow filter. This trip saw some extreme heat on the hills and hot weather through Kansas all the way east. The 900ppm on the zinc is interesting as I never use any additives. The absence of antifreeze or water tells me the cooling system is tight. Negligible fuel says it's not running rich. Any other thoughts?

[Talkwrench]

So the Mobil 1 is synthetic right? Was it that shitty coppery - brown colour they all seem to turn straight away ?
That's damn a good result...

[tubman]

I had the same company do an analysis of the oil in my '51 just before I changed the engine. I believe it cost $25. My numbers were much worse than yours. I believe it is a valuable test. I plan on doing it on my new engine just before the second oil change, which I plan to be about 1000 miles.

[JSeery]

Interesting.

[mhsprecher]

Looking at their web site, I see the cost of the test is $28.

[Frank Miller]

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Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Looking at their web site, I see the cost of the test is $28.

plus $10 for the TBN which tells how much additive is left in the oil.
They attributed heat to the thickening but i wonder if running an open crankcase has any effect? Guess it just lands on the road instead of the combustion chambers.

[rotorwrench]

When I was in the Army, the helicopter engines were SOAP tested every 25-hours of operation. 90% of the time we would repair a problem prior to the results getting back to the unit. Things may have changed since then but the testing just really didn't help us all that much. When bearings go bad, it can happen pretty quickly on the turbine engines. Recip engines wear more slowly and you seem to always have some bearing metal content in the oil even though it can be pretty minute.

[Frank Miller]

The point was to see how much usable life was left and what was going on after 3000 miles. I think it can be said that one can go extended periods on a stock engine.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. Frank thanks so much for posting this information. Hopefully it will continue as others do the analysis and add to the info. You did do 8100 miles on that interval right? So cool what your car has done, you have the evidence to backup being just a bit proud!

[Lawrie]

Last feb we did a 7000klm trip way in the 33 and c/van,engine has about 20,000 miles on it,oil was shell 20-50, I did an oil and filter change at 3500klms,it had used maybe 1/2 litre,but had done a few hot days in 42s C,and one day in 44C, plus a few days around town in 47C.
on the return trip it again used maybe 1/2 litre,
My engine has a full flow setup,it works well.
Lawrie

[Karl]

The suggestion to change the oil every 9000 miles is interesting.
In both my Model A and my 34 I change the oil every 1000 miles. I don't use Mobil 1 so not so expensive to dump the oil. I would be interested in peoples change frequency . Of course in the day it was recommended every 500 miles - I accept that the oil was not as good but wonder if they really did change it that frequently -Karl

[flatjack9]

Judging from the goo in all these old engines, I doubt that oil was changed that frequently.

[Frank Miller]

Got this email today. Even they're impressed.
Hi Frank,

I'm interested in using the report you did after your cross-country trip in your '49 Ford in our newsletter. That engine really looks great - I am impressed. Did the car give you any trouble on the trip? I'm impressed with the mileage too. That oil held up pretty well - the only thing I see is a thick viscosity, probably from the heat generated going through the mountains. What kind of Ford is it? Let me know if it's okay to use the report (anonymously, of course).

Sincerely,

Kristin Huff
Blackstone Labs

[Seth Swoboda]

Frank that's pretty neat. Let us know if they use your '49 Ford and oil report.

[Ross F-1]

I just did an oil change today, and took a sample for Blackstone. I also run Mobil1, and most of the mileage on this oil change is from a cross-country trip. I'm anxious to see what they find!

[RATMAZ]

Mine was not so good

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1508804939

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Karl

The suggestion to change the oil every 9000 miles is interesting. Of course in the day it was recommended every 500 miles - I accept that the oil was not as good but wonder if they really did change it that frequently -Karl

Karl, According to the original "Service Data Handbook" that came in my 1940 Ford, the Ford Motor company recommends that the crankcase oil be changed
every 2,000 miles. If equipped with an oil filter, "it is recommended that the oil be changed at 5,000 mile intervals except for seasonal changes. The filter unit should be replaced every 10,000 miles." End of quote.
So your statement was off by a factor of 10! I would never have guessed that Ford recommended such long intervals.

[fordor41]

when I had my heads done I asked the builder about Mobil 1 and zinc. He said there's not enough zinc in mobil 1 and to add zinc every 3000 miles even thiough I run the oil for 1 yr. I change filters every 3000 mi. and add zinc.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Karl, According to the original "Service Data Handbook" that came in my 1940 Ford, the Ford Motor company recommends that the crankcase oil be changed
every 2,000 miles. If equipped with an oil filter, "it is recommended that the oil be changed at 5,000 mile intervals except for seasonal changes. The filter unit should be replaced every 10,000 miles." End of quote.
So your statement was off by a factor of 10! I would never have guessed that Ford recommended such long intervals.

Interesting. Both my Model A and the 34 don't have oil filters. I'm pretty sure the owners manual for the Model A stipulates 500 mile changes The Model T owners book certainly did but of course the oil went through the transmission as well. . I can't put my hands on the 34 owners manual but I think that was 1000 miles . I did find the owners book for my 34 Plymouth and that was 1000 miles in winter and 1500 miles in summer and that had a filter ! All pretty academic really because the oils today are probably 20 times better than in the day ! I actually don't mind changing the oil every 1000 miles or so . Maybe I could go longer but my runs are pretty short mostly round town And the oil seem to get pretty dark after only 1000 miles . Can't see more frequent changes doing any harm other than to my pocket and if I was worried about that I'd be driving a rice burner ! -Karl

[tubman]

The owners manual for my '51 specifies 2000 oil change intervals, That I can live with. What surprised me is they recommend a chassis lubrication every 1000 miles!

[Frank Miller]

Originally Posted by tubman

The owners manual for my '51 specifies 2000 oil change intervals, That I can live with. What surprised me is they recommend a chassis lubrication every 1000 miles!

Greasing that car is the worst job. I did it while I was in Oregon. I'm hoping the modern greases are better. Must be as they now make tie rod ends and ball joints without fittings.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Frank,

I used to work for a fleet and we did the oil reports on everything we serviced. Saved them tons of money over the years. We had everything from Police cars to lawn mowers. More than once they called and said you better get Car 12 in and have a look. Even the back hoes were saved more than once. Interesting to see it used on a flathead older car. keep the thread going...
We used Kendall oil and the reports were provided at no cost....

[Frank Miller]

I was surprised to see 900 ppm on the zinc, considering I have never used any additive. Low metals means my tappet are not coming apart.

[G.M.]

This report is a few years old and I posted it several times but
this has information we should all know about oil. I have several
small diesel cars and trucks and find the Cummins Blue 20/40,
the number one oil perfect for my diesels. I like the quality of the
base oil and the additives. I also use it in a few flatheads that I
drove long and hard. G.M.

[G.M.]

This report is a few years old and I posted it several times but
this has information we should all know about oil. I have several
small diesel cars and trucks and find the Cummins Blue 20/40,
the number one perfect for my diesels. I like the quality of the
base oil and the additives. I also use it in a few flatheads that I
drove long and hard. G.M.

[Ross F-1]

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Got my Blackstone report today! Looks great, this is for an EAB about 10k miles after a rebuild at the time of fill with Mobil1 10w30. Right after the fill I drove it on a ~3700 mile trip with 90% at highway speeds, plus about 500 miles locally, 4200 miles total. Stock bypass oil filter with NAPA Gold element (made by Wix).

I changed it mostly because it had been in there a little over a year, but the analysis shows it was in fine shape.

[Frank Miller]

Looks like we found something that works. Now to try using some cheap regular oil and getting the same results. Funny the oil did not wear out after a year either.

[mhsprecher]

Good thought, Frank.

I am going to have the oil tested in my Mazda Miata at its regular oil change interval. I want to test the oil in both of my Model A's, too. I use Mobil 1 in all of them.

[40cpe]

Thanks to Frank and Ross for sharing these results, and congratulations on having seemingly sound engines. Both of these reports had at least the majority of the mileage accumulated on trips. I would venture that most of us don't have mostly long trip/highway miles on an oil change. My engine is soon coming up on 2000 since rebuild, with 1500 on this 10w30 Motorcraft oil. I plan to change it soon and already have the Blackstone kit.

I think it interesting that both Frank and Ross have the bypass filters and both got excellent test results.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

...
I think it interesting that both Frank and Ross have the bypass filters and both got excellent test results.

I have sent an email to Blackstone to ask which of the test values indicates filter efficiency, if any. I'm not sure they really look at that, and I think it would be real hard to get a representative sample.

No doubt the most important thing, IMO, is to start with a clean engine. Even the best oil can't overcome years of sludge contamination.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Looks like we found something that works. Now to try using some cheap regular oil and getting the same results. Funny the oil did not wear out after a year either.

Frank, I use Shell Rotella T 15w40 in my flathead engines. I could send a sample in on my next oil change. It's not "cheap" oil but also not synthetic.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Frank, I use Shell Rotella T 15w40 in my flathead engines. I could send a sample in on my next oil change. It's not "cheap" oil but also not synthetic.

In the tests I posted Walmart's was better than shell?? G.M.

[qmdv]

All the lube and oil change recommendations were for more dirt roads than we drive on today. A Model T had no oil filter or air filter. Those old T's and A's sucked a lot of dirt through those engines.

Tim

[Frank Miller]

Ross F! You can have a filter dissected to determine what it is removing from the oil. The fact that there is not a lot of metals in the oil tells us there is no wear or the filter is doing it's job. If you go on Blackstone and read their newsletters there is a Ford overhead cam motor that was showing high numbers on the aluminum. This is a full flow system. Long story short it turned out to be a cam tensioner gone south and the chain hitting the aluminum housing. It was found and fixed before catastrophic results. For clarification this was just a result of a standard oil test, no filter analysis.

Thanks everyone for weighing in. This has been one of the more meaningful oil discussions on here because we have data not marketing hype. Ross and I used no extra additives and there is no indication of our cam and lifters being destroyed.

[tubman]

I think another fact that stands out is that both of you are using the stock by-pass oil filter system and your engines seem to be exceptionally clean.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by G.M.

In the tests I posted Walmart's was better than shell?? G.M.

Yes that is interesting, isn't it? I also assume that Walmart is having one of the major engine oil manufacturer's package oil under the Walmart name brand. I wonder if you can get Sam's Choice oil at Sam's Club? I suppose if it's available it would be in 55 gallon drums (I jest of course).

[Ross F-1]

I got a reply from Blackstone about measuring filter effectiveness:

"Hi there, Ross

Insolubles would be a good measure of how effective filtration is. Those are solids that accumulate with heat/use and it's the filter's job to keep them to a minumum. 0.2% is a pretty nice reading in that regard. I hope this helps but let me know if you have any more questions.

All the best,
Christopher Peden
Blackstone Labs"