The Ford Barn

29er · 04-10-2015, 11:59 AM

Twice in the past few years I've had to remove the starter and tap the flywheel ring gear back in place because it was hitting the bottom of the housing when the clutch was depressed.

I have the so-called "modern" starter drive. My theory is this drive is hammering the ring gear, pushing it forward over time.

The question is whether the original-style starter drive will prevent this?

Anyone have any experience with this?

Mike in Oregon

Pmsqrd · 04-10-2015, 12:38 PM

A number of members in our club have gone back to the original drive after a series of stuck starters and bent starter shafts. The originals work fine but can shear bolts from time to time. Bolts are easier and less expensive to replace than bent starter shafts.

Tom Endy · 04-10-2015, 02:12 PM

It may not be the starter drive causing the problem. I believe that reproduction flywheel ring gears do not fit tight to the flywheel and may be the culprit. Henry would have had a better idea if he had designed the starter assembly so it was pulled toward a flange instead of away from it.

I encountered the same problem and after tapping the flywheel ring gear back into position several times, I removed the flywheel and had the ring gear pinned to the flywheel. Problem resolved.

Tom Endy

hardtimes · 04-10-2015, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

It may not be the starter drive causing the problem. I believe that reproduction flywheel ring gears do not fit tight to the flywheel and may be the culprit. Henry would have had a better idea if he had designed the starter assembly so it was pulled toward a flange instead of away from it.

I encountered the same problem and after tapping the flywheel ring gear back into position several times, I removed the flywheel and had the ring gear pinned to the flywheel. Problem resolved.

Tom Endy

Hey Tom,
We were just discussing this a couple days ago here on another thread. Someone here also mentioned that he felt that (reproduction) the 'ring gear bore' was possibley not done as accurate to Ford specs as needed for proper fit...without pinning. I agree and am going to pin mine.
Did you have to balance flywheel after pins?

Tom Endy · 04-10-2015, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Tom,
We were just discussing this a couple days ago here on another thread. Someone here also mentioned that he felt that (reproduction) the 'ring gear bore' was possibley not done as accurate to Ford specs as needed for proper fit...without pinning. I agree and am going to pin mine.
Did you have to balance flywheel after pins?

I don't think it is necessary to rebalance as the three pins were placed at equal distance. However I also had a new ring gear installed, so I did have it re-balanced.

Since you live in Southern California, the shop that can do this work for you:

Jim's Automotive Services
1366 Logan Ave. Unit H
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
714-546-2969
Owner: Jim Nichols, Model A enthusiast

Tom Endy

29er · 04-10-2015, 07:27 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks Tom. I thought that might be the case as I have read other threads indicating so. I will likely install a new ring gear when next I have the flywheel out, but until then I can access it through the starter hole to tap it back into place.

A couple more questions:

(1) Any thoughts on whether the ring gear can be pinned thru the starter hole?

(2) What's the source of a reliable, properly-fitting ring gear?

Many Thanks!

Synchro909 · 04-13-2015, 04:46 AM

No need to go to the trouble of pinning the rig gear to the flywheel. Even without removing the engine this problem is easily solved with a few drops of Loctite super wick in (No 290, I think). I did this a few years ago with one of my cars and haven't had to touch it since - many thousands of miles later. After pulling the ring gear back into its correct place, simply put a few drops at different places around the gear where it comes up against the flywheel. It will seep in between the two and cure. Job done!

hardtimes · 04-13-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

No need to go to the trouble of pinning the rig gear to the flywheel. Even without removing the engine this problem is easily solved with a few drops of Loctite super wick in (No 290, I think). I did this a few years ago with one of my cars and haven't had to touch it since - many thousands of miles later. After pulling the ring gear back into its correct place, simply put a few drops at different places around the gear where it comes up against the flywheel. It will seep in between the two and cure. Job done!

Hey Synchro,
Do you know/think that your solution will work on an aluminum flywheel with the steel ring gear (dissembler metals) ?

As to Toms points (not starter device, but maybe more ring gear), I have had a 'modern' bendix starter device in my ORIGINAL 6V starter...not even rebuilt...for 10 or more years. No problems (bent shaft) yet !!
BTW..thanks Tom for above info.

Wm J. · 04-13-2015, 03:51 PM

Mike,

I don't think this has ever been brought up on this site but the modern drives first imported from India by Snyders had the bevel or taper on the wrong side of the teeth. This will not only knock the ring gear off it will also damage the ring gear teeth.

I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can.

Later another club member ordered one and it was correct when received. Don't know how many of the bad ones were sold before the defect was discovered but if you bought one you may want to pull the starter and check the teeth to an original drive.

Tom Wesenberg · 04-13-2015, 04:07 PM

"I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can."

Don't throw away bad or worn out parts. I see people make some nice yard ornaments out of metal parts welded together.

29er · 04-13-2015, 07:58 PM

Thanks to all. Great comments.

WmJ: The bevels on the teeth of my modern drive are on the correct side, but are less angled than those of the original type and the teeth are showing some wear. The inside of the ring gear looks ok so I won't replace it. Wonderful observation, and I suggest everybody check and send the poor-built ones to Tom W so he can weld up some yard art!

Synchro: Thanks for the tip! I didn't know such a product existed. I'll give it a try.

So for now, here's what I'm going to do:

(1) replace the modern drive with the original (thanks Tom W for tips on tightening bolts and oiling);

(2) drop some Loctite 290 between the ring gear and flywheel to try to secure the gear in place;

(3) Remove the starter as part of my annual maintenance to check the condition of the drive and ring gear.

Many thanks to all who responded! This forum is AWESOME!

Mike in Oregon

04-10-2015, 11:59 AM	#1
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Original vs "modern" starter drive Twice in the past few years I've had to remove the starter and tap the flywheel ring gear back in place because it was hitting the bottom of the housing when the clutch was depressed. I have the so-called "modern" starter drive. My theory is this drive is hammering the ring gear, pushing it forward over time. The question is whether the original-style starter drive will prevent this? Anyone have any experience with this? Mike in Oregon

04-10-2015, 12:38 PM	#2
Pmsqrd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 216	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive A number of members in our club have gone back to the original drive after a series of stuck starters and bent starter shafts. The originals work fine but can shear bolts from time to time. Bolts are easier and less expensive to replace than bent starter shafts.

04-10-2015, 07:27 PM	#6
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks Tom. I thought that might be the case as I have read other threads indicating so. I will likely install a new ring gear when next I have the flywheel out, but until then I can access it through the starter hole to tap it back into place. A couple more questions: (1) Any thoughts on whether the ring gear can be pinned thru the starter hole? (2) What's the source of a reliable, properly-fitting ring gear? Many Thanks!

04-13-2015, 04:46 AM	#7
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive No need to go to the trouble of pinning the rig gear to the flywheel. Even without removing the engine this problem is easily solved with a few drops of Loctite super wick in (No 290, I think). I did this a few years ago with one of my cars and haven't had to touch it since - many thousands of miles later. After pulling the ring gear back into its correct place, simply put a few drops at different places around the gear where it comes up against the flywheel. It will seep in between the two and cure. Job done! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

04-13-2015, 03:51 PM	#9
Wm J. Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 29	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive Mike, I don't think this has ever been brought up on this site but the modern drives first imported from India by Snyders had the bevel or taper on the wrong side of the teeth. This will not only knock the ring gear off it will also damage the ring gear teeth. I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can. Later another club member ordered one and it was correct when received. Don't know how many of the bad ones were sold before the defect was discovered but if you bought one you may want to pull the starter and check the teeth to an original drive.

04-13-2015, 04:07 PM	#10
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive "I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can." Don't throw away bad or worn out parts. I see people make some nice yard ornaments out of metal parts welded together.

04-13-2015, 07:58 PM	#11
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive Thanks to all. Great comments. WmJ: The bevels on the teeth of my modern drive are on the correct side, but are less angled than those of the original type and the teeth are showing some wear. The inside of the ring gear looks ok so I won't replace it. Wonderful observation, and I suggest everybody check and send the poor-built ones to Tom W so he can weld up some yard art! Synchro: Thanks for the tip! I didn't know such a product existed. I'll give it a try. So for now, here's what I'm going to do: (1) replace the modern drive with the original (thanks Tom W for tips on tightening bolts and oiling); (2) drop some Loctite 290 between the ring gear and flywheel to try to secure the gear in place; (3) Remove the starter as part of my annual maintenance to check the condition of the drive and ring gear. Many thanks to all who responded! This forum is AWESOME! Mike in Oregon