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04-10-2015, 11:59 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 465
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Original vs "modern" starter drive
Twice in the past few years I've had to remove the starter and tap the flywheel ring gear back in place because it was hitting the bottom of the housing when the clutch was depressed.
I have the so-called "modern" starter drive. My theory is this drive is hammering the ring gear, pushing it forward over time. The question is whether the original-style starter drive will prevent this? Anyone have any experience with this? Mike in Oregon |
04-10-2015, 12:38 PM | #2 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 216
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
A number of members in our club have gone back to the original drive after a series of stuck starters and bent starter shafts. The originals work fine but can shear bolts from time to time. Bolts are easier and less expensive to replace than bent starter shafts.
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04-10-2015, 02:12 PM | #3 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
It may not be the starter drive causing the problem. I believe that reproduction flywheel ring gears do not fit tight to the flywheel and may be the culprit. Henry would have had a better idea if he had designed the starter assembly so it was pulled toward a flange instead of away from it.
I encountered the same problem and after tapping the flywheel ring gear back into position several times, I removed the flywheel and had the ring gear pinned to the flywheel. Problem resolved. Tom Endy |
04-10-2015, 02:59 PM | #4 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
Quote:
We were just discussing this a couple days ago here on another thread. Someone here also mentioned that he felt that (reproduction) the 'ring gear bore' was possibley not done as accurate to Ford specs as needed for proper fit...without pinning. I agree and am going to pin mine. Did you have to balance flywheel after pins? |
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04-10-2015, 03:22 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
Quote:
Since you live in Southern California, the shop that can do this work for you: Jim's Automotive Services 1366 Logan Ave. Unit H Costa Mesa, CA 92626 714-546-2969 Owner: Jim Nichols, Model A enthusiast Tom Endy |
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04-10-2015, 07:27 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oregon
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
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A couple more questions: (1) Any thoughts on whether the ring gear can be pinned thru the starter hole? (2) What's the source of a reliable, properly-fitting ring gear? Many Thanks! |
04-13-2015, 04:46 AM | #7 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,496
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
No need to go to the trouble of pinning the rig gear to the flywheel. Even without removing the engine this problem is easily solved with a few drops of Loctite super wick in (No 290, I think). I did this a few years ago with one of my cars and haven't had to touch it since - many thousands of miles later. After pulling the ring gear back into its correct place, simply put a few drops at different places around the gear where it comes up against the flywheel. It will seep in between the two and cure. Job done!
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I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood. |
04-13-2015, 02:10 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,188
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
Quote:
Do you know/think that your solution will work on an aluminum flywheel with the steel ring gear (dissembler metals) ? As to Toms points (not starter device, but maybe more ring gear), I have had a 'modern' bendix starter device in my ORIGINAL 6V starter...not even rebuilt...for 10 or more years. No problems (bent shaft) yet !! BTW..thanks Tom for above info. |
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04-13-2015, 03:51 PM | #9 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 29
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
Mike,
I don't think this has ever been brought up on this site but the modern drives first imported from India by Snyders had the bevel or taper on the wrong side of the teeth. This will not only knock the ring gear off it will also damage the ring gear teeth. I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can. Later another club member ordered one and it was correct when received. Don't know how many of the bad ones were sold before the defect was discovered but if you bought one you may want to pull the starter and check the teeth to an original drive. |
04-13-2015, 04:07 PM | #10 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
"I bought 5 at the then price of $24.95 and never used them. Sold one to a fellow club member about a year later and he brought it back showing me the problem. Gave him his money back and threw all 5 in the garbage can."
Don't throw away bad or worn out parts. I see people make some nice yard ornaments out of metal parts welded together. |
04-13-2015, 07:58 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 465
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Re: Original vs "modern" starter drive
Thanks to all. Great comments.
WmJ: The bevels on the teeth of my modern drive are on the correct side, but are less angled than those of the original type and the teeth are showing some wear. The inside of the ring gear looks ok so I won't replace it. Wonderful observation, and I suggest everybody check and send the poor-built ones to Tom W so he can weld up some yard art! Synchro: Thanks for the tip! I didn't know such a product existed. I'll give it a try. So for now, here's what I'm going to do: (1) replace the modern drive with the original (thanks Tom W for tips on tightening bolts and oiling); (2) drop some Loctite 290 between the ring gear and flywheel to try to secure the gear in place; (3) Remove the starter as part of my annual maintenance to check the condition of the drive and ring gear. Many thanks to all who responded! This forum is AWESOME! Mike in Oregon |
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