Overdrive trans.

[Terry Wilkerson]

I found an R11 overdrive trans, guy thinks it's a 1963. Thinking about putting it in my 1950 Ford Custom. My question is what would be a good price. He wants 400. Seems complete. I would still would need relay, kickdown and wiring.
.

[rjlester]

That's more than a fair price if it is a working trans.

You can manually shift the levers to test the forward three gears and reverse. To bench test the OD, you would either have to activate the solenoid with a battery, or remove the solenoid and manually activate the OD. If you turn the input shaft with a pliers/vice grip, you can count the revolutions on the output shaft to see the gears working.

Is the R11 the same length as your transmission?

[Terry Wilkerson]

I'm going to take my trans and bellhousing with me and do some comparing. A direct bolt in place would be a really good thing.

[Newc]

The 49 up trans pattern was used to about '65. Then Ford double drilled the patterns for a few years. Newc

[Terry Wilkerson]

Guy said this one is double drilled.

[tubman]

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I have three T89's (with R11 overdrives) from early '60's Ford pickups I am planning on using behind my Olds Rocket and an early Chrysler hemi in the "T" Tub I'm building. According to the information i have found, a T89 is nearly the same as a T85. I quote an article in Hemmings : "The major difference between the two transmissions is the mainshaft; the T-85 uses a helically cut first and reverse mainshaft, whereas the T-89 has a straight-cut mainshaft". Other than that, they strongly resemble the '50-'51 OD transmissions I have. However, a closer look at the transmissions revealed that the input shaft retainer (and therefore the register on the bell housing) is larger than the earlier transmissions. I think you could either turn down the retainer or enlarge the hole in the bellhousing. Also, the pilot that goes into the rear of the crankshaft is also larger on the later transmissions. I haven't checked yet if there is another bushing/bearing that could be used or if you would have to bore something out.

This is what I have found from the transmissions I have; yours may be different. I believe the rear mount may also be incompatible. The bolt pattern on the front of the transmission and the input shaft length was the same as the earlier units. These are heavy duty units and strong enough that Ford used them behind the FE engines (including the Hipo 1962 406).

Edit : Oh yeah, the spline for the clutch disc is also different (larger), but you should be able to get around that problem with the proper disc..

[Terry Wilkerson]

I found 2 more OD transmission close by. Ad says they are 50/53 .
That means they would be 6V. Question will 6V solenoid work on a 12V system like a starter.

[STEVE O]

I second what Tubman said as far as front bolt pattern and input shaft length and also on bearing retainer OD. If I remember correctly you cant use the early bearing retainer so you have to turn down the od of it to fit the earlier bell housing. I always wondered being Ford drilled the trans case for both patterns if there was another bearing retainer made with the smaller OD that I had never ran into. Steve

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by Terry Wilkerson

I found 2 more OD transmission close by. Ad says they are 50/53 .
That means they would be 6V. Question will 6V solenoid work on a 12V system like a starter.

I am installing an OD trans into my '51 tudor while changing to 12v. I was advised by those more wise than I, to get 12v solenoid and relay. That is what I have done.

[Terry Wilkerson]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I am installing an OD trans into my '51 tudor while changing to 12v. I was advised by those more wise than I, to get 12v solenoid and relay. That is what I have done.

Where did you buy your parts?

[Shoebox]

Originally Posted by Terry Wilkerson

Where did you buy your parts?

Vanpelt Sales, LLC 513 724 9486

[38 coupe]

The T89 (really a T85) transmission will not bolt into a 49-50 Ford. The rear motor mount and transmission length is wrong. You need the proper 49-50 Ford transmission, or enough parts to assemble one. The tail housing design was changed in 1951 and the rear motor mount is in a different location.

Originally Posted by STEVE O

I second what Tubman said as far as front bolt pattern and input shaft length and also on bearing retainer OD. If I remember correctly you cant use the early bearing retainer so you have to turn down the od of it to fit the earlier bell housing. I always wondered being Ford drilled the trans case for both patterns if there was another bearing retainer made with the smaller OD that I had never ran into. Steve

Ford made two different front bearing retainers for T85 transmissions, one with the larger OD and one with a smaller OD. I don't know all the applications, but I learned about this recently when assembling a T85 for use in my 63 F-100 using a 1960 car transmission with a 1966 truck gear set.

[Terry Wilkerson]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

The T89 (really a T85) transmission will not bolt into a 49-50 Ford. The rear motor mount and transmission length is wrong. You need the proper 49-50 Ford transmission, or enough parts to assemble one. The tail housing design was changed in 1951 and the rear motor mount is in a different location.



Ford made two different front bearing retainers for T85 transmissions, one with the larger OD and one with a smaller OD. I don't know all the applications, but I learned about this recently when assembling a T85 for use in my 63 F-100 using a 1960 car transmission with a 1966 truck gear set.

38 coupe is correct. I bought an overdrive I found on market place its an r10. The rear trans mount is about 1 inch rearward of the mount on my 50 ford custom. Don't know how or if I can use it. Thought about making a plate for the trans mount. The problem is it would raise the rear of the trans the thickness of the plate. Any ideas ?

[tubman]

I thought I heard someplace that you can just turn the trans mount around. Or was that for a '51 Ford-a-matic?

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by tubman

I thought I heard someplace that you can just turn the trans mount around. Or was that for a '51 Ford-a-matic?

You turn the transmission mount around on the cross member to install overdrive, but it still needs to be the right type of tail housing. Here are some pictures to help ID an overdrive transmission. Please be aware that over a dozen manufacturers use Borg-Warner overdrives over the years and there are lots more versions than just the Ford units pictured here.

1949-1950 (notice the extra electrical switch behind the lock out arm)


1951 (I think you can use later, but don't have first hand experience so buyer beware)


1952-1953-1954 (can also use later as bolt in, I have helped install a 1955-1956 unit in a 52 sedan)


1955-1964? (be aware that the units were produced after 1956 have different splines than the earlier units, but you use can use them as long as you match the clutch disk to the input splines and the driveshaft yoke to the output splines)

[transbytip]

Terry,sent p.m. let me know if [email protected] Cliff.

[tubman]

Another thing to be aware of is that the "Shoebox" Fords have a clutch arrangement that uses a boss on the side cover to support the clutch linkage. Ford went to "swing pedals" in 1952, so the transmissions lack that boss. I believe that the side covers are a direct swap, so you can just use the earlier piece.

Just one more thing to be aware of.

BTW, I am also a big fan of overdrive transmissions in these cars. I had one in my "high school" '51 so I know the advantages. That's why I have one all ready to go into my current car. The extra power provided by the mildly "hopped up" Merc is a real advantage as well.

[Terry Wilkerson]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

You turn the transmission mount around on the cross member to install overdrive, but it still needs to be the right type of tail housing. Here are some pictures to help ID an overdrive transmission. Please be aware that over a dozen manufacturers use Borg-Warner overdrives over the years and there are lots more versions than just the Ford units pictured here.

1949-1950 (notice the extra electrical switch behind the lock out arm)


1951 (I think you can use later, but don't have first hand experience so buyer beware)


1952-1953-1954 (can also use later as bolt in, I have helped install a 1955-1956 unit in a 52 sedan)


1955-1964? (be aware that the units were produced after 1956 have different splines than the earlier units, but you use can use them as long as you match the clutch disk to the input splines and the driveshaft yoke to the output splines)

The unit have looks like the first picture you posted. I plan on looking at it closer tomorrow.
The splines on the front are correct for the clutch plate.