Well...this ain't good

[Heard]

What a fabulous day here in central Florida for drive in the coupe. Or so I thought. Got about 6 miles from the house when I heard a pretty loud BANG! then some godawful noise. I thought maybe I had blown a tire. Nope.

Blew the plug clean out of the head. I knew these Eddie Meyer heads were a little sketchy when I bought the car. I guess they are REALLY sketchy now.

They may become wall hangers after I see just how much corrosion there is.

[flatheadmurre]

Can´t really blame a stripped plug thread on corrosion...
Put in a timesert thread insert and be back on the road in notime

[corvette8n]

It's called cylinder deactivation, Caddy used it on their 4-6-8 motors lol.

I fixed a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower with an insert, worked for years until I wore it out.

[tubman]

I have repaired these with "Heli-Coils" and have had no problems. From everything I have heard, "Time-Serts" are superior. You may be all right, most of the stripped threads on spark plugs I experienced have been the result of crap not cleaned out and a large Flex-Handle.

[RKS.PA]

Hoping you were able to "limp" it home?

[Ggmac]

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Stick a whistle in it . Making the best , almost . Love the car wanto trade ?

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Can´t really blame a stripped plug thread on corrosion...
Put in a timesert thread insert and be back on the road in notime

Heard follow flatheadmurre’s direction. As always he is spot on with the correct fix.
Good luck.
Cheers
Tony

[19Fordy]

Were the threads actually stripped? Could it have been that the plug was loose?

[alanwoodieman]

all used aluminum heads are subject to do that, last set I put on had 4 bad or suspect plug threads so I did all 8 with inserts to keep from what happened to you

[VeryTangled]

Let the Flathead fun continue. Drive/Fix/Repeat. Sometimes it's Buy/Fix/Repeat. Pretty sure a cuss nd a band-aid has to be in there somewhere.

Heard, is it only the head/plug, did the hood escape damage? Sweet looking ride!

[Heard]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. No damage otherwise. Had a bunch of folks stop to help. Then I realized they were just wanting to see the car which was cool with me.

And no, I wasn't suggesting corrosion caused this. I should have clarified that I suspect there is corrosion other places.

[RobR'35]

Sorry to hear of your trouble.
Nice 3 window, by the way.
Hope you're able to get her up and running.
I wish I had the weather your having today to go for a cruise.
Another month.....maybe..

[woodiewagon46]

As others have pointed out, I wouldn't hesitate in using Heli-Coils or other makes of thread repair system. If you aren't comfortable doing it, a machine shop can easily do the job for you.

[bobH]

Another brand that I don't already see mentioned.... KD
I've used, with good results. Only problem is, when you later want to remove the plug, the insert will also come out.
And, I'm sure you already know, only remove plugs from aluminum heads, cold, like overnight cold, stone cold.
Keensert

[aussie merc]

welcome to the world of alloy heads not many get looked after like they should but the majority survive ,there tougher than they look. not many actualy torque plugs when fitting them less actually use an antisize and even lessactualy wait till their cold . [ i can imagine trying to tell a customer they have ti loose their car overnight just so i can change the plugs : let me know how that works out: just repair the thread and keep on enjoying your ride

[bobH]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

welcome to the world of alloy heads not many get looked after like they should but the majority survive ,there tougher than they look. not many actualy torque plugs when fitting them less actually use an antisize and even lessactualy wait till their cold . [ i can imagine trying to tell a customer they have ti loose their car overnight just so i can change the plugs : let me know how that works out: just repair the thread and keep on enjoying your ride

I worked at a dealership during the 50's and 60's. Many of the makes we carried, were european, with aluminum heads. And, yes, the customer had to leave the car overnight. Probably wouldn't fly well today, but back then, that was the way it was. As a wrench, I did as the boss wanted. And, I wouldn't touch a plug on a warm engine. And, I wasn't about to face the consequences if I pulled some plug threads in a way that the boss didn't approve. Also, back then, we hadn't yet heard of the various inserts that are available today.

[Mart]

I never heard of leaving it to go cold. I'll try and follow that in the future. Never used anti-seize either! You learn something new every day.

Mart.

[skidmarks]

Thats a easy in the car fix.

That V10 ford had for awhile were good for the same issue and a lot hard to get to.

I like the nickle-ease supposed to be good for higher temperature.

[deuce_roadster]

Glad the problem you encountered has a fairly easy solution. I had an outboard motor do the same thing and wondered what the explosion was.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Heard

What a fabulous day here in central Florida for drive in the coupe. Or so I thought.

Blew the plug clean out of the head. I knew these Eddie Meyer heads were a little sketchy when I bought the car. I guess they are REALLY sketchy now.

Man, some guys will do anything to get their car noticed on the internet...…so, let me help! DD


The other side of Heard's really cool l'il 3-window!







The bottom end ain't too shabby, either!



…….

[Tinker]

Amazing car. Heads are cheap overall considered.

[Frank Miller]

Blew a plug out of my Harley in North Platte Nebraska. Went to Harley dealer and got song and dance about disassembling machine shop etc. I asked who the machine shop was? Got the plug tightened enough to get there and and like a half hour and 50 dollars I was on the road again. Maybe it was less than 50 but it was not much time. We greased the tap for the helicoil to not let any chips fall. Ran quite a few miles on that.
Electrolysis between the steel plug and aluminum causes the threads to strip when you remove the plug if you do not use anti seize.

[Ol' Ron]

WOW!! what a beautiful car, always had a soft spot for the 36 3 widow. Thanks.
Gra,ps

[cmbrucew]

Has anyone drilled and retapped 18 MM for the larger plug thread? Forget the heli coil etc.
Bruce

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

Has anyone drilled and retapped 18 MM for the larger plug thread? Forget the heli coil etc.
Bruce

Had a set that were done that way and then they too got the threads pulled out (rough life) fixed them by welding the holes up, spot faced them in the mill then redrilled them back to 14mm. Old heads are not the easiest thing to weld (most of the time)

Really the easiest and best way is the keysert, much better then a helicoil

[tubman]

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Is that 7/8"?

[flatheadmurre]

14mm is "normal" modern plugs so going to 18 is a fair cut...or was it going from 18mm to the real early plugs ??

[JSeery]

Some of the early 4.6s had a sparkplug issue. I have put inserts in several of them with the engine in place. Fairly simple to do and great results.

[deuce_roadster]

Except for those spark plug threads, there is nothing to change on that cool 3w coupe! Nice pictures DD.

[Heard]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Except for those spark plug threads, there is nothing to change on that cool 3w coupe! Nice pictures DD.

Just be glad he didn't show you the interior! Definitely a work in progress.

[Mike51Merc]

I had one blow out right past my left ear and up to the hood of the car, leaving a dent. Also got two of my fingers with aluminum shards. Scared the crap out of me.

Heli-coil makes a time-sert style insert that does a good, easy, clean repair.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Heard

Just be glad he didn't show you the interior! Definitely a work in progress.

Nah, I wouldn't pull that one un-announced. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of, though. Yup, it's spartan, it's clean and tidy, has some interesting features, it's shiny in most of the right places, but most-importantly it has a business-like yet "manly" feel about it! DD

[Aarongriffey]

The ‘36 has an 8RT in it?
I have done maybe a dozen spark plug hole fixes in the past years with my KD kit. Also a few Honda oil drains.
About thirty or more years ago a guy from Yugoslavia had me do a spark plug hole on a six cylinder BMW. Maybe was a 530i or Bavaria.
When the plug blew out he stripped a length of fine stranded copper wire and cut one strand out of it and wrapped it around the spark plug in the threads, or what was left of them, and screwed the plug back in. I was amazed and he told me back home (in Yugoslavia) people mostly worked on their own cars and messed up a lot of spark plug holes and that was a very common repair there for cars and motorbikes.

When you tap the threads you should stop and remove the tap a few times, clean it off an d recoat it with chassis grease to keep the shavings from falling into the cylinder.
When you finish tapping start the engine with the plug out and let it run a few seconds to blow the shavings out. Aluminum shavings won’t do damage if some fall in and stay. They melt right away.
The KD kit should be available in any good parts store.
I get my TIME SERT kits from the Thread kit store in Carson, CA.
I

[Aarongriffey]

Thread Kits Company
Threadkits.com
310-891-1995 they’re in Carson,CA

They have other stuff like rivet nuts etc. nice company. I’ve dealt with them three times in the past two months. I bought TimeSert kits; 5/16 coarsekit, 5/16 fine tools to convert the coarse kit to fine, 1/4” kit. I wasted two days hunting for either keenserts or timeserts or the like. I’m not crazy about Helicoil. I will use one in a pinch but not in a spark plug hole

The Time sert bolt inserts get locked in at the bottom so they ca not back out. I don’t know about the spark plug seats.
I have KD spark plug inserts, they don’t lock. You put then in with the spark plug. You use blue Loc Tite on them. Time Sert kits come with a tool that you use to cut a groove with around the top of the hole.
Then there’s a tool that you use to screw the insert in with. The insert has a flange around the top.it fits into the groove and stops ot righ there. But the tool keeps turning a nd spreads the bottom of the insert locking it in place so it can never come out, you would have to drill it out.

The last three places I worked they never gave me spark plug with the can of anti-seize when doing plugs on any car, iron or alloy.
We used a square caged fan to coll the engines quicker before breaking the plugs loose.we just laid it on top of the engine. It doesn’t take long


I

[Aarongriffey]

Should have been : they never gave me spark plugs WITHOUT the can of anti-sieze

[Old Redneck]

When I was a boy a fellow down the road had a Hudson and he blew a spark plug. Made a loud noise but he drove it that way for several years. You could hear him coming down the road.

[APDAVE]

Really a nice Car!!

[Aarongriffey]

We had neighbor in Wisconsin on the farm that was deaf.
He drove Studebaker with no trunk lid instead of a pickup.
He drove it a long time after the exhaust pipe broke off until somebody finally told him. You could here him coming a long ways.
All the time his wife was complaining of head aches. She was also deaf.

[Aarongriffey]

8RT engine?

[Aarongriffey]

I Brock the rings or ring lands or something on an old Volvo.
It would foul the spark plug in just a few seconds.
I removed the pushrods for that cylinder and drove it on 3 cylinders for a year.

[VeryTangled]

I'ma challenge JM to tell us a '36 is not cooler. I need something to clean my eyeball cuz it keeps falling out!

Keep the 3w's rolling at all costs!

[Aarongriffey]

8RT in a ‘36!
I have used my KD spark plug hole insert tools many times. The common 14 mm plug tools also work for putting a plug insert in the oil drain hole on Honda cars.
Any good parts store should have the K D insert kit. Put the insert on the spark plug and screw it into the head AFTER coating the insert with blue loc Tite
I just wasted two days trying to find Keen,Serts, Time Serts or whatever. I am not too crazy about Heli Coil.
I found what I needed at Thread Kits Company
Threadkits.com
310-897-1995 there in Carson, CA
Very easy place to Beal with, they have rivet Serts n other thread stuff too.
The Time Serts for bolts kit has a cutterthat you use after you drill out the old threads.it cuts a groove around the top of the hole. The inserts have a ridge or hat brim around the top of them so when you put the insert on the bolt looking insert driver you can Omnitel secret the insert in until the ridge bottoms out in the groove at the top of the hole leans the insert flush with th top of the hole.
When it stops turning you keep on twisting the driver a couple of turns which expands the bottom of the insert lock it in so it can never back out.
I don’t know if Time Sert’s spark pug holrepai kits have the lock in feature.
For plus I have only use KD, HeliCoil and KeenSert.

[Aarongriffey]

Threadkits.com
They’re in Carson,Ca. Not there in

[mfirth]

Well shucks Heard ! Anyone with a car that cool....nah i ain't go'n there.....
Hope yer back on the road soon if not already.

[Heard]

I'm working on it. Ordered the Time-Sert kit. Just waitin.....

[Heard]

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And BTW, you guys are the best. There is simply no comparison to the amount of VARIED experience here on the Barn. Motorcycles, BMWs, whatever, and experiences from all over the world over many years and generations. It is really quite remarkable when you think about it.

Makes me think even I can do this.

[RKS.PA]

Heard, you really do have a "Plan B":

Based on the work you and DD did on the T5, this should be a piece of cake for you! And, yes, the knowledge here on the Barn is amazing....and I, too, am thankful to have access!

[KGS]

Originally Posted by Heard

I'm working on it. Ordered the Time-Sert kit. Just waitin.....

Are you going to just repair the one that blew out or are you going to do all of the spark plug holes? I would recommend pulling both heads and do all of the holes as in preventative maintenance. I'm too anal to expect that only one is going to fail.
Ken

[sidevalve8ba]

I always use anti-seize when putting spark plugs in aluminum heads but someone mentioned proper torque. What would that be for a spark plug in an aluminum head?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

Someone mentioned proper torque. What would that be for a spark plug in an aluminum head?

ALL In Ft. Lbs., ALUMINUM Head


18MM Flat Seat W/Gasket....25-32


18MM Conical Seat, No Gasket....14.5-21.5


14MM Flat Seat W/Gasket....18-21.5


14MM Conical Seat, No Gasket....7.5-14.5


DD

[JSeery]

Need to be careful with the torque values if using a lubricant such as anti-seize. Most torque values are dry and it is easy to over torque when using a lubricant! As a kid I torqued spark plugs and it was the only time in my life that I broke a spark plug!!

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Need to be careful with the torque values if using a lubricant such as anti-seize. Most torque values are dry and it is easy to over torque when using a lubricant! As a kid I torqued spark plugs and it was the only time in my life that I broke a spark plug!!

I've gotta agree! The values I listed above came right off the ol' interweb right where anyone else could have found them. I myself have never used a torque wrench on a plug. "Feeling" plugs in to just the "right snugness" has always worked pretty well for me. That's a coupl'a pretty technical spark plug terms there if you've never heard them used before. DD

[sidevalve8ba]

I've been twisting them into aluminum heads for longer than I want to admit to. Always used anti-seize but never a torque wrench. Just went "kinda light" on the torque because it was aluminum. Haven't "lost" one yet but I guess there is always a first time.

[Heard]

Ken - I'm going to have to think about that a bit. I'm planning to just fix the one but as I mentioned, these heads seemed a little sketchy when I bought the car.

As DD mentions, I've always just snugged them up just right by hand. Never had a problem. BUT, on these heads, they just don't feel quite right. I've changed the plugs twice I believe. The last time was just a few weeks ago. I did it cold but as I was doing it, I was reminded that some of these holes just ain't quite right if you know what I mean. They probably all need to be done but that is my plan B. Oops.

Cathy usually won't go with me when I go for a drive. She says she has to stay home so she can bring me tools when I break down. Damn it! She was right. 'Course the tools didn't help me this time but she brought them anyway.

[RKS.PA]

Not to be disrespectful of your time and budget, but I'm with Ken above on fixing all 8 of your threads. After you do the current bad one, it's always going to be in the back of your mind it could happen again with one of the others.... out there on the road. Plus, those heads are worth restoring and a very "cool" part of your car!!

My wife is like Cathy. She waits by the phone when I'm out with the '47 and she's had to rescue me on more than one occasion and always relieved when I'm back in the garage.

We all look at our projects in our own way....just my opinion.

[aussie merc]

check the websites of manufacturers of the plugs you choose all you need is generally there

[Heard]

Well, I got the Time-Sert kit but it won't work with the heads mounted. The tap is too long and hits the valve long before all the threads are cut. Plus you are supposed to run it down to where the flutes are 1/4" below the surface, then slip the seat cutter over the tap to clean up the seat. No way is that happening so I pulled the head.

It actually looks pretty good to me. That pink stuff is the no-rosion in the radiator. So I'm looking for ideas on cleaning up these heads. I'm thinking of soda blasting and re-painting them. What do you guys say?

Also, does anyone have any ideas on what the numbers mean and what the extra acorn nuts are all about? Oil filter mount?

Thanks!!
Heard

[tubman]

Sounds to me like you have all of your bases covered.

[mogiley]

what do you run for engine fan

[jimvette59]

Nice set of heads I can't help you with the numbers but the extra acorn nuts are for a oil filter.

[RKS.PA]

So, are you going to re-do all the spark plug threads, or just the one that failed?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by mogiley

what do you run for engine fan

Since I'm the bozo that helped Heard design and develop the fan he runs on his coupe, I'm going to post the link just below with the full story and a bunch of pictures. If you want to see a few more pictures or have any questions, just ask either Heard or myself. This should work on any '35 or '36 (W/8BA) with the radiator slanting rearward. DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...08#post1869208

[Heard]

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

So, are you going to re-do all the spark plug threads, or just the one that failed?

I'm probably going to do all of them at this point. Once I get it cleaned up I'll look really closely at those threads but like I said earlier, I know some of them are a little weak. You know how you get that feeling when you are tightening up a bolt and it feels like it should be just a little bit tighter but you're afraid it is going to strip??? Yeah....some of them are like that.

And speaking of the fan, I think I'll put some thermostats in while I'm at it. It takes forever to get this thing up to operating temps.

[19Fordy]

Looks great. Nice and clean plus, no leaks!

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Heard

And speaking of the fan, I think I'll put some thermostats in while I'm at it. It takes forever to get this thing up to operating temps.

You think maybe you made that damned fan TOO big? …...Naaah! DD

[sidevalve8ba]

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Heard,
Do you have any idea if those heads have ever been resurfaced?

[Heard]

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

Heard,
Do you have any idea if those heads have ever been resurfaced?

I really don't. They were on the car when I bought it and the previous owner didn't say much about them except that they were rare. If you can believe it, I was even MORE of a newbie then and wasn't smart enough to ask more questions.