Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2018, 05:51 PM   #1
rbullockv8
Senior Member
 
rbullockv8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 177
Default Wring crimping tool?

Does anyone sell a crimping tool for the chassis wiring bullet ends? I think it must have a half circle that supports the barrel while indenting the other half. These things are a pain to solder.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1D783843-2FF2-429D-8F58-86AF442EBA70.jpg (36.2 KB, 76 views)
__________________
1932 Model B Roadster Pickup
rbullockv8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 06:03 PM   #2
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Not sure you can crimp that type (if they are the thick style). The crimp style are much thinner.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-07-2018, 06:10 PM   #3
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

The ones that are machines brass will crack if you try to crimp them. If they were the type that is formed from brass sheet & tin coated then they will crimp. I use a 4-way crimp tool to install those.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:35 PM   #4
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

See this thread-----------------

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...bullet+crimper
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:38 PM   #5
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,935
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbullockv8 View Post
Does anyone sell a crimping tool for the chassis wiring bullet ends? I think it must have a half circle that supports the barrel while indenting the other half. These things are a pain to solder.
Typically this type is soldered on the wire. Also, soldering creates a much better conductor than crimping.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 09:21 PM   #6
paul2748
Senior Member
 
paul2748's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midland Park, NJ
Posts: 3,965
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
maybe something like this? It looks like it could be used with non-insulated terminals as well. I have an old crimper that has the half round with a stud on the other side and it works very well. Never had one come apart on the road. Because of the problems with soldering, I never soldered the smaller terminals. Did three cars with the tool.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insulated-C...MAAOSw4CFY1H-o
__________________
48 Ford Conv
56 Tbird
54 Ford Victoria

Last edited by paul2748; 06-07-2018 at 09:38 PM.
paul2748 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 09:09 AM   #7
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

I just soldered some wires up to a stick grip switch yesterday to repair the 4-way trim function on a helicopter. A person has to have good clean wire to start with. It can be soldered without tinning the wire tip but tinning speeds things up and insures that the solder will stick. Solder type terminals that are clean brass should be fine without any pre tinning. If you wire is loose on the bullet, try doubling the wire over if it will fit tighter or tin the wire as thick as you can with solder before inserting it in the terminal.


You can use a torch but avoid contaminating the parts to be soldered. A good quality solder gun or an old large soldering iron would be better. The quicker you can heat it the better it will solder. Use a good quality modern electrical type rosin core solder no larger than 1/16" in diameter. Use a good quality shrink tube of the correct diameter to protect the finished solder joints. It doesn't take too long to master the soldering technique.


In aviation, crimp type connectors are preferred over soldering but in tight areas, there is no choice. Solder joints are stiff on the solder joint but the wire remains flexible. They tend to fatigue crack at the joint over time and the wire will break off from the terminal. This is the reason most stuff is crimped where practicable.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 09:36 AM   #8
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Solder them
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 10:07 AM   #9
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
Solder them
I hate to disagree, but crimping is better if you have the right tools. Ask just about anybody in the business. Soldered joints can fail in high vibration situations before crimped ones will.

Of course, if the only crimper you have is one of those flat black ones from the "tool table" at the hardware store, you are probably better of soldering. I upgraded my crimper and it was worth every penny. I even went overboard and bought a crimper just for spark plug wires. Making a set of plug wires is a snap now. No more pre-cut sets for me.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:02 AM   #10
Rustedjunk
Senior Member
 
Rustedjunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 302
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

rbullockv8 the British used the same wire bullet ends that our Fords used, but from the late 1940's to 1980's. Go to www.britishwiring.com and get these two tools. Buy these tool and you will not need anything else. Don't waste your time soldering the bullets. There are better things to do with your time.


1) http://www.britishwiring.com/Ratchet...ool-p/tt85.htm


2) http://www.britishwiring.com/Tool-Sn...ool-p/ssc1.htm
Rustedjunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:08 AM   #11
Rustedjunk
Senior Member
 
Rustedjunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 302
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

This is another one that I got off EBay. The tool does what it's supposed to. It just took forever to come in. But the British bullets and the Ford bullets are 90% identical. I went to a shop that restores British car and I brought one of my Ford wires. They were surprised.


1) https://www.ebay.com/itm/British-4-7...AAAOSwP~tW5Yas


Soldering these things suck! Crimp and be done. And then go grab a soda or a beer. LOL!
Rustedjunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:15 AM   #12
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

British wiring products are very similar to the stuff used in the US back in the 30s, 40s, & 50s but they aren't quite the same. A person needs to find out what diameter the OEM are and what the equivalent wire size needed is in order to compare before you buy. The UK went 12-volt before the US did and wire sizes can be smaller for a lot of items at 12-volt. The terminal blocks used by Ford will only fit one specific sized bullet and they fit tight.


The crimper tool previously linked (hex type crimp die) is very similar to what is used to crimp the small sizes of coaxial cable used in aircraft in this day and age. That size or similar may be available here in the US but a specific size will have to be know before a person shops for one. I use a Daniels 4-way crimper but they are too expensive for most folks. Many of these crimpers lock on to the splice or terminal and won't unlock until you have gone all the way with the crimping dies. If it's too small a size it may mash the bullet till it fails.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-08-2018 at 11:23 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:24 AM   #13
Rustedjunk
Senior Member
 
Rustedjunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 302
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
British wiring products are very similar to the stuff used in the US back in the 30s, 40s, & 50s but they aren't quite the same. A person needs to find out what diameter the OEM are and what the equivalent wire size needed is in order to compare before you buy. The UK went 12-volt before the US did and wire sizes can be smaller for a lot of items at 12-volt. The terminal blocks used by Ford will only fit one specific sized bullet and they fit tight.


The crimper tool previously linked (hex type crimp die) is very similar to what is used to crimp the small sizes of coaxial cable used in aircraft in this day and age. That size or similar may be available here in the US.


Trust me. it works. It is the same size, that's what I just said earlier. 6V and 12V has little to nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be saying this if I wasn't sure. I'm using those things on my 1947 Ford.
Rustedjunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:29 AM   #14
fordy_nine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Springboro. Ohio
Posts: 212
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

The problem with soldering is "wicking" of the solder up between the individual strands. This causes stiffening of the wire and, subsequently, an interface between stiff and flexible where the failure occurs during vibration. In the Army, back in the Sixties, we were taught to use anti-wicking tools to prevent these vibration failures on our mobile radars. The tool was a tweezer-like clamp placed on the stripped area of the wire to freeze off the flow of solder. It was made of chrome-plated copper to be a good heat sink while the chrome plating resisted solder from sticking to it. They were made to fit specific wire gauges snugly. Because of the materials involved, aggressive fluxes were verboten......Bob L
fordy_nine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 12:44 PM   #15
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustedjunk View Post
Trust me. it works. It is the same size, that's what I just said earlier. 6V and 12V has little to nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be saying this if I wasn't sure. I'm using those things on my 1947 Ford.

I'm not implying that you are wrong but my experience with British cars and motorcyles has given me a bit more insight that most. I've been able to find the old crimp type here in the US but sometimes they also mix them with the ones that can't be crimped made from machined brass. British terminals are sized to the wire by the number of strands which is a rough equivalent to the American wire gauge system. Most 12-volt systems use 18-gauge wire more than other sizes due to the higher voltage. Most 6-volt systems use 16 gauge on the average for less resistance to the lower voltage. This means a size change of terminals since 18 to 22 gauge terminals are used for smaller gauge 12-volt circuits and 14 to 16 are used for the larger gauge 6-volt circuits so voltage can have an effect.


The depth of the groove behind the tip is important for good locking of the bullet terminal in the blocks and single connector sockets. The diameter of the body bellow the groove is important for a good tight fit in the terminal sockets. Most of the British stuff I've worked with or checked out to date is different and generally smaller or of a different shape.


It's not you I don't trust. It's the vendor trying sell me something that won't work well or reliably that I don't trust. It's a little hard to b!tch at someone in the UK that I've purchased something from when even they likely wouldn't have any idea if it will be a good fit or not.


If they work for your 47 then that's great but which ones work and for what size wire? They use bullet connectors a long time in the UK and there are a world of different types.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 02:42 PM   #16
Rustedjunk
Senior Member
 
Rustedjunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 302
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
I'm not implying that you are wrong but my experience with British cars and motorcyles has given me a bit more insight that most. I've been able to find the old crimp type here in the US but sometimes they also mix them with the ones that can't be crimped made from machined brass. British terminals are sized to the wire by the number of strands which is a rough equivalent to the American wire gauge system. Most 12-volt systems use 18-gauge wire more than other sizes due to the higher voltage. Most 6-volt systems use 16 gauge on the average for less resistance to the lower voltage. This means a size change of terminals since 18 to 22 gauge terminals are used for smaller gauge 12-volt circuits and 14 to 16 are used for the larger gauge 6-volt circuits so voltage can have an effect.


The depth of the groove behind the tip is important for good locking of the bullet terminal in the blocks and single connector sockets. The diameter of the body bellow the groove is important for a good tight fit in the terminal sockets. Most of the British stuff I've worked with or checked out to date is different and generally smaller or of a different shape.


It's not you I don't trust. It's the vendor trying sell me something that won't work well or reliably that I don't trust. It's a little hard to b!tch at someone in the UK that I've purchased something from when even they likely wouldn't have any idea if it will be a good fit or not.


If they work for your 47 then that's great but which ones work and for what size wire? They use bullet connectors a long time in the UK and there are a world of different types.

http://www.britishwiring.com is located in Pennsylvania. I learned on European cars and after dealing with Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz, so I am not cavalier with any period of car. When I went to the shop in Minnesota that deals with the restoration of British cars, I brought the wire harness for the dome lights of my 47 Ford. Granted this is a new remake I got from one of our trusted vendors. I also brought one of our black connectors that is for our Fords. The British terminal fits snugly into our connector. No issues! The bullet terminals were the same width. That was comparing 14 gauge wire and 16 gauge wire, both which is very common in 12V cars, British, American, Japanese, and German. I didn't even touch 18 gauge wire.
Rustedjunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 10:06 AM   #17
rbullockv8
Senior Member
 
rbullockv8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 177
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

Of course like most things, I had no idea it was so complicated and/or controversial. ��

I was just frustrated that I was on my back trying to solder a taillight wire overhead and I needed three hands. Shouldn’t be that difficult for the ones I have left to do. Not worth $60 for a tool I might not use much in the future. My 50-year-old Weller soldering gun works great. Now, if I could figure out that third hand thing...

Thanks for all the info. Educational as always.
__________________
1932 Model B Roadster Pickup
rbullockv8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 01:37 PM   #18
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

No argument meant at all.
My experience has been thus:
The Brass connectors need to be soldered. They will crack & I have an excellent crimper.
The aluminum ones are crimpable (is that a word).
The problem I've run into is that the vendors (Mac's, in particular), don't always send whats noted in the catalog. I have received both types on the same order.
I solder all of them and then add heat-shrink on the ends
Just my experience
jIM
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 02:30 PM   #19
DD931
Senior Member
 
DD931's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PA Poconos
Posts: 723
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

I'm with Kahuna. Henry soldered them. The good wiring suppliers (like Rhode Island Wiring) solder them. I think they actually dip the ends in a solder pot. The British are known for electrics that don't work (Lucas!!). Personally, I solder them with a relatively small soldering gun. I would never use anything but brass. Some folks have built a "third hand" using a magnetic base holding an arm with an alligator clip on the end.
DD931 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 08:35 PM   #20
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: Wring crimping tool?

I hold the solder with my teeth but it won't work that way upside down. A solder pot might work as long as the tip doesn't fall off into the pot. Tips covered with solder may not fit in the terminal blocks. My Mercury cars didn't have any soldered tips in the OEM harnesses.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.