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Old 02-26-2016, 02:59 PM   #1
steve hackel
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Default V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

There are several articles out in print that describe how to do this conversion, and most recent was the January 2016 SOSS, so I already have the article.
To complete the conversion, one needs a "reverse wound" Bendix drive spring which is wound the opposite direction of a stock model A' Bendix spring.
Both articles I have list a NAPA #BK6560-1501 (not available) and also a model T' Bendix spring - but - looking at a picture of a model T' Bendix spring on Snyders web site and also a model A' Bendix spring, they appear to be wound in exactly the same directions????? Does anyone know exactly what spring I am looking for, or does anyone out there have a reverse wound Bendix spring (s) for my attempt at this? Point me in the right direction Steve
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:51 PM   #2
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Point you in the right direction? Don't waste your time. I don't believe the starter and flywheel are problem areas on the Model A. You are creating a monster and if there is ever a problem down the road you will have to figure out how to solve it (maybe while on the road). Just my opinion. I must add that I have never done this conversion (or felt the need to). By the way, why do you think you need to?

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Old 02-26-2016, 04:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

I did it as a trial , think a chev one is wound the other way , that's why they are slow , Had some in a box so must be easy to find ,
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

I have about 5 of them,PM me if you need one
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:51 PM   #5
Bob C
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

I think the number should be 656-1501.
http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=656-1501

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Old 02-26-2016, 04:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

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I did this conversion years ago, with the urging of Mike Hart. I did not like the results, and removed it and installed a cut down flywheel that Bob Rentz made for me with a V8 clutch. That setup is still in the car, and works well.
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Old 02-26-2016, 05:24 PM   #7
steve hackel
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Thanks for all the information, and the # at NAPA is correct for my application. regarding why, why not - Why did Lindberg fly the Atlantic, why do people climb Mt Everest, why do people try a different restaurant......
I would be willing to bet that some of you have insert bearings and modern valves in your engines, most have new / modern tires on your 80 year old wheels, alternators - hi compression heads - better brakes - better steering
modern 4 cylinder engines (oh boy ) lightened flywheels and V8 pressure plates, and hundreds of other things that Ford could never have envisioned, much less approved of since he was the father of the beloved Model A!!!!!

I am searching for answers to my questions, as simple or as complicated as they might be - but - I am not searching for the most hard hitting opinions relating to my question. There are MANY people on this forum that have non original model A Fords - they just haven't come out of the closet and are un-willing to suffer the abuse that some of you seem fit to inflict on anyone that asks a question that is not original in nature. Be it something along the lines of a V8 flywheel, or something as simple as detergent vs non-detergent oil: opinions are like @$$ holes - everyone has one and they all stink!

The person that I am doing this for wanted to do this conversion, for better or worse - he wanted to do it, and I offered to help him out by doing some research on the subject.... Remember, HE WANTS TO DO THIS ........
He can afford to do this, and he can afford to buy most of us out with just the pocket change that he leaves at restaurants for tips when he gets great service. Just be a little kind once in a while - someone might leave you a great tip when they are done (if you gave them great service)
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Old 02-26-2016, 05:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

I have an old FAST article which states a part number for a complete starter drive as Delco 1850844 or 1901846 ask if spring can be purchased seperate. You can also reference Accurate number 4-135C
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62pan View Post
I have an old FAST article which states a part number for a complete starter drive as Delco 1850844 or 1901846 ask if spring can be purchased seperate. You can also reference Accurate number 4-135C
I'm confused, The Accurate #4-135C is a CW drive as opposed to the typical CCW Model A drive.
But the need for a spring was mentioned.
Changing the spring on a drive does nothing with respect to rotation other than twist the spring.

The springs either way are available and most starter shops will have them.
I had hundreds at one time but I kept giving them away.

I think the 4-135C (complete) is as close as your gonna get if that is what is needed. 62Pan is on it.
So, all in metric,
Length..133.4mm
Gear...39.5
Bushing ID 15.9
Rotation CW
10 Tooth (9 tooth will work if same diameter, they may come either way)
Hope this helps.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Hey Willie,
Far from expert on this sugject am I... like Jim B and/or Just Plain Bill, both members here.
IMO, your confusion and that of others may be solved (I think) by thinking that this reverse spring is seated on the other side of flywheel and is PULLED into mesh, rather than as stock, i.e.- pushed into mesh. No, I'm not smoking anything and if I were and have further confused you, maybe Just Plain Bill will clarify. I know that he has done/used this V8 setup.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Took the drive off the shaft , reversed it , cut new key way I think , bendix spring wound the opposite to the A one . used an AA clutch housing with SUPPORT bearing & Toyota 5 speed , why ?? just playing around , Ford owners been playing around since day one , Come to think of it did not Henry play around ??? extra kids or women ??? We are one big family , lets keep together,
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

well said steve
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:12 PM   #13
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Try doing a search ---I remember some pictures a while back, --another consideration is the end of the shaft will now have the gear, in the stock saetups the gear is close to the endplate()bearings)----with the gear at the end of the shaft you will need some form of support at the end of the shaft or it will bend easy---possible on the first start attempt
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Steve, I am going to be out of town next week but I think I have several reverse wound springs. Call me after the 4th and I will look for one.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Yep, consider what Kurt said before digging to far into this. I would advise the customer of what all needs to be changed. Rich or not, he might be headed for a dead end without doing a lot of changes.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Who needs a reason to do something?
Who needs a reason to even ask the question?

Just to add to the confusion, I use aluminum Chevrolet flywheels and gear drive starters on my A/B engines.
The reason? They are cheaper than anything else.
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Old 02-26-2016, 10:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Kurt, the article in the secrets magazine does show how to make a support bushing in the almost flat area of the bell housing behind the starter. That bushing supports the shaft with the drive at the far end.
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Old 02-26-2016, 11:55 PM   #18
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
There are MANY people on this forum that have non original model A Fords - they just haven't come out of the closet and are un-willing to suffer the abuse that some of you seem fit to inflict on anyone that asks a question that is not original in nature. Be it something along the lines of a V8 flywheel, or something as simple as detergent vs non-detergent oil: opinions are like @$$ holes - everyone has one and they all stink!
What you forget is that this is a forum for stock Model A's. It is not me that is saying this it is the owner of the site.

"This is a ford restoration forum. We have side at topics that cover some moderation. Off topic stuff will be deleted unless I find it intriguing for one reason or another. "

As for "suffering the abuse", there is no reason to suffer, the owner of the this site also has another site; H.A.M.B.

You have no right to say anything to those that are following the wishes of the owner except thank you.
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Old 02-27-2016, 12:21 AM   #19
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
Thanks for all the information, and the # at NAPA is correct for my application. regarding why, why not - Why did Lindberg fly the Atlantic, why do people climb Mt Everest, why do people try a different restaurant......
I would be willing to bet that some of you have insert bearings and modern valves in your engines, most have new / modern tires on your 80 year old wheels, alternators - hi compression heads - better brakes - better steering
modern 4 cylinder engines (oh boy ) lightened flywheels and V8 pressure plates, and hundreds of other things that Ford could never have envisioned, much less approved of since he was the father of the beloved Model A!!!!!

I am searching for answers to my questions, as simple or as complicated as they might be - but - I am not searching for the most hard hitting opinions relating to my question. There are MANY people on this forum that have non original model A Fords - they just haven't come out of the closet and are un-willing to suffer the abuse that some of you seem fit to inflict on anyone that asks a question that is not original in nature. Be it something along the lines of a V8 flywheel, or something as simple as detergent vs non-detergent oil: opinions are like @$$ holes - everyone has one and they all stink!

The person that I am doing this for wanted to do this conversion, for better or worse - he wanted to do it, and I offered to help him out by doing some research on the subject.... Remember, HE WANTS TO DO THIS ........
He can afford to do this, and he can afford to buy most of us out with just the pocket change that he leaves at restaurants for tips when he gets great service. Just be a little kind once in a while - someone might leave you a great tip when they are done (if you gave them great service)
Steve,

My advice had nothing to do with originality, it was based entirely on what I think is practical. I was only trying to "point you in the right direction" which is what you requested in your initial post. Be sure to let everyone know how it comes out, I don't mind being wrong.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 02-27-2016 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 02-27-2016, 03:16 AM   #20
steve hackel
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Default Re: V8 flywheel and a modified V8 starter

I don;t mean any harm to anyone, mush less do it deliberately - yet the point of originality is really stretched to the limits on this wonderful site by some very opinionated people when every conceivable way around doing something that is modified to our model A's is hidden, masked and done so that it can't be detected from a judging standpoint! So where on earth is the "originality" in better brakes, safety glass, stainless parts and hardware, insert mains & rods, reground cams, stainless valves and hardened seats, 12 volt alternators built into the old 6 volt generators so they are hidden, halogen bulbs, high compression heads.........????????? Anyone rebuilding a model A is contributing to the longevity of the entire hobby, even if they buy a high compression head or take a leap of faith and install a set of Flat head Ted brake adjusters - every single one of us needs door lock springs, kingpins, weather stripping, steering & engine components, and the list goes on & on & on Yet to this day, I have never heard a single purist say thanks for helping Snyders - Brattons - Berts, and many others keep their doors open by buying the necessary parts to accompany the few non stock items that might be installed onto some of our cars - including your beautiful roadster Charlie.
I truly believe that if the administrator of the site will allow discussions regarding some of the many items I listed above to be used on an otherwise stock appearing model A ford, then the same should hold true for the installation of a V8 flywheel and the questions I have asked regarding some of the parts necessary to complete the job, just like the typical high compression head, stainless valves and insert bearings used on the majority of the cars people on this site have already installed on their cars. I am not condoning a Chevy small block, disc brakes, air conditioning or power window & power seats, but every single guy in this world wide family wishes to make his car better - faster - safer - stronger - stop quicker (sort of sounds like the old 6 million dollar man from the 70s before taxes) and the majority of those wishes can not be granted without doing things to our cars that are not original by technique, by parts & equipment, or by science & technology. I will gladly weld something for the kid down the street, a street rodder, someone working on a model A, or a guy working on a Duzenberg - they are all trying to get somewhere, and I am only too glad to help further the hobby by not passing judgment; we all need door springs,
safety glass, king pins, and an occasional handle welded to some kids little red wagon...... he just might grow up to be a car guy some day
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