Troubleshooting Transmission '47 pickup

[GB SISSON]

First thing I'll do this morning is check is check my rear axle ratio. I happened to pick up a NP 435 ford version yesterday on the mainland. I know it was supposed to be a valentines day outing, but I couldn't resist the price and location. He threw in the clutch disc, pp and bell housing. A 3/4" plate between it's symetrical butterfly pattern and the hogs head will produce identical input lengths, and yes, pilots are identical. I would build a bolt in rear crossmember on the bench to limit the time spent underneath on that hard concrete floor. I am not certain I will go this route, but engineering the system is good brain exercise and it would work well in a future tonner project JIC. There was one more side trip tp pick up another WW2 US Navy bomb hoist. The seller wanted 60 bucks, but said he'd rather trade for some old stuff to hang on his garage walls. That was too easy. Oh boy, more stuff.

[cas3]

Nice score. Those bomb hoists must be more common near the coast, we don't have much use for a navy in my part of the world so I've never seen one available.

[GB SISSON]

Driveshaft went around a bit more than 4 turns, so I'm gonna say 4.11 . The NP has some deep lows so the jury is still out. I recently sold the red diesel tonner as a guy kept bugging me to sell it to him. Ever since I ruined my hearing exploding an old rag 12 ply next to my ear I have barely driven it as it is very loud in the cab. His offer was very generous so I'm happy. That's how I'm paying for the new 8ba and metal lathe, shop insulation etc. The bulk has to go to a new roof on the house next summer. It's long over due.

[sidevalve8ba]

GB,
It's funny you shouild bring up 435's. I was just reading an article about rebuilding them in an old issue of "FOUR WHEELER" the other day. It seems the ratios in a Ford 435 are 6.68:1 in first, 3.34:1 in second, 1.74:1 in third and direct in fourth. If you took off in second most all the time that would seem okay but that low gear is truly a grandma gear especially with your 4.11 rear end!

If you are interested that article is in the November, 2020 issue. You may be able to look it up on the Internet. Pretty good article.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Driveshaft went around a bit more than 4 turns, so I'm gonna say 4.11 . The NP has some deep lows so the jury is still out. I recently sold the red diesel tonner as a guy kept bugging me to sell it to him. Ever since I ruined my hearing exploding an old rag 12 ply next to my ear I have barely driven it as it is very loud in the cab. His offer was very generous so I'm happy. That's how I'm paying for the new 8ba and metal lathe, shop insulation etc. The bulk has to go to a new roof on the house next summer. It's long over due.

[GB SISSON]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have fine tuned the NP 435 conversion a bit more, but really it is not gonna work in the woodie. It requires cutting the center out of the crossmember and fabbing a new one set back a couple inches. Then there's the lack of a slip joint on rear yoke....It is still viable for a tonner or bigger and has been fun figuring it out. Today I started cleaning out the bay that has the 5 ton hand crank winch for pulling the engine/tranny. I will move the woodie in and start the dismantling process probably next weekend. I suppose I will pull the engine and trans as a unit, then get inside the 3 speed and see what I have and what it would need. Then it will be decision time.... T-5?, rebuild existing 3 speed as is or lower gear set? I have not seen how the rear mount is addressed with the T-5 conversion. How does a T-5 attach to my pickup's crossmember, and will I need to shorten the driveshaft?

[flatford8]

Gary.... here’s a pic of how I did my T-5 in a ‘51 Tudor. If you want a better one, I’ll get it today. I don’t know what your cross member looks like, but this might give you an idea of what you’re up against. I don’t remember if you said you’re having trouble with your transmission now other than first is too high. Regearing your current transmission to make you happy with first gear is probably the best option. T-5’s are getting expensive and there would be a lot of fab work to install it including a shorter driveshaft I think.I haven’t got to making the driveshaft on mine yet. And as you said it may never see overdrive on the island. It seems like you’re hitting a weekly jackpot on cool stuff to own! ....Mark

[flatford8]

Sorry forgot the picture

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Mark. The crossmembers look very similar, dipping down into a sort of V in the center. This whole situation started innocently enough when my wife and I decided to take the woodie into town because it was such a nice late fall day. Heading down the hill towards the county road we both heard strange sounds coming up from the transmission. We knew we had to turn around an grab a different vehicle. Heading back up the hill we heard nothing unusual. I later isolated the noise to the transmission and made a few short test runs, once again hearing the sound primarily on decelleration.. Folks here pointed to the thrust washers needing to be replaced. Now that may be all it needs, but when it's right there on the work bench it oughta be 'gone through' and thoroughly inspected.
The clutch, PP, TOB are all new, but the woodie has never liked any clutch slipping. The engagement is horrible with a bad shudder on any incline. As stated, I did not have the flywheel surfaced. Obviously while the tranny is out I will address all that. Leaning towards centerforce clutch. Third situation is a room full of good blocks, a newly ground 4" crank, lots of 8ba parts and a lifetime love of working on engines. Knowledgeable folks here suggested the 276 version while the block was at the machine shop. I am of the mind that with the greatly increased torque, machined flywheel, new clutch assembly and motor mounts, I will now be able to back outa the garage, point the nose uphill and with some normal clutch slippage, ease my way over the incline and head into town. That's all I really want after all the work is completed.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Sorry forgot the picture

[GB SISSON]

Thanks Pete and Mark. Now that the photo is bigger it looks even harder to swap to a non stock transmission with that big old wooden body sitting atop the frame. Makes a guy wanna buy a 2 post lift, but with 10' ceilings it's a major shop remodel. In the meantime I fired up the woodie and drove down to the county road and back just to listen to the noise. As before,it is a pretty loud clickity-clack along with a rumble/vibration going down the steep grades in first. Does not seem to do this in second, but that's a bit too fast to make the switchbacks and corners, so had to go back to first. No noise or vibration climbing back up in first, some second. Stopped at my other property on the way up for some firewood for shop stove. I had a helper. How much wood can Woody chuck into a woodie?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thanks Pete and Mark. Now that the photo is bigger it looks even harder to swap to a non stock transmission with that big old wooden body sitting atop the frame. Makes a guy wanna buy a 2 post lift, but with 10' ceilings it's a major shop remodel. In the meantime I fired up the woodie and drove down to the county road and back just to listen to the noise. As before,it is a pretty loud clickity-clack along with a rumble/vibration going down the steep grades in first. Does not seem to do this in second, but that's a bit too fast to make the switchbacks and corners, so had to go back to first. No noise or vibration climbing back up in first, some second. Stopped at my other property on the way up for some firewood for shop stove. I had a helper. How much wood can Woody chuck into a woodie?

[GB SISSON]

Well here we are weeks later and no closer to a transmission swap or repair. I want to pull the engine and trans together and need the new engine for that. In the meantime the woodie is still a moveable object and I am deep into two other projects along with the typical woodwork my customers are nagging me about. First project is the ongoing so-called 'machine shop/engine work/mancave'. Second is I am rebuilding a transfer case for the foyota. I think I mentioned the brilliant 'glitter' in the 90w. Ick. Anyway it's going well and going back together. The most fun has been building this shop though. Wouldn't I love that old ford spark plug sandblaster that showed up here on a thread yesterday for a prop. Waiting on a clutch sleeve for the in and out of the transfer case and hope to install into truck in a week or two. Gotta get a call into Les at the machine shop and see about progress on the 276....

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Well here we are weeks later and no closer to a transmission swap or repair. I want to pull the engine and trans together and need the new engine for that. In the meantime the woodie is still a moveable object and I am deep into two other projects along with the typical woodwork my customers are nagging me about. First project is the ongoing so-called 'machine shop/engine work/mancave'. Second is I am rebuilding a transfer case for the foyota. I think I mentioned the brilliant 'glitter' in the 90w. Ick. Anyway it's going well and going back together. The most fun has been building this shop though. Wouldn't I love that old ford spark plug sandblaster that showed up here on a thread yesterday for a prop. Waiting on a clutch sleeve for the in and out of the transfer case and hope to install into truck in a week or two. Gotta get a call into Les at the machine shop and see about progress on the 276....

[40coe]

Yes, Van Pelt is a great source for bearings and other parts. I have rebuilt about seven in recent years past. A couple for me and the rest for friends. Pay attention to the end play tolerance on the thrust washer and between second gear. I used max roller bearings on the main shaft, they have an extra ball bearing and are quieter. I cut O ring groves in the case for counter shaft and reverse idler shaft to seal it from leaking. With the O rings I used Red line MT 90 trans oil. Runs smooth quite and dose not leak.
You mentioned your new engine you might rebuild. I believe with the bigger cubes and the stroker crankshaft your low gear would be fine.

[cas3]

The shop is so neat an tidy GB! Carry on....

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

The shop is so neat an tidy GB! Carry on....

Thanks Skip. I tray to carry on as before, but I kinda hate to mess things up. The two bays where I work on the trucks still has the old 'patina', but I have been inspired to pick things up just a bit. I am not looking forward to rolling around on the cold concrete installing this very heavy transmission/transfer case. On a good note, the vehicle's floorboards are plywood and easily removed after pulling the seat and seat frame, so on the foyota, a lot can be done from above. When I get to the woodie I may saw an access hatch, The floor under the seat is still ford pickup steel, but wood floor behind that. It is indeed freeing working on vehicles that are so far from 'correct' that a hole in the floor with an old road sign screwed over it is just another conversation piece. My next truck project? How about a tonner dump truck with a tilt cab?

[GB SISSON]

I can't really let go of the T-5 swap. In case I swing that way, is this T5 from a 1995 S10 the correct one? It was rebuilt 50,000 miles ago and the seller ran redline synthetic in it. Says it's in great shape and shifts smoothly. Asking 450.00 ???

[sidevalve8ba]

GB,
There is, or should be, a tag on the transmission with a series of numbers. These numbers will give you the gear ratios of that gearbox. The numbers should be 1352-XXXX. It will make difference as to first gear ratio and overdrive ratio.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

GB,
There is, or should be, a tag on the transmission with a series of numbers. These numbers will give you the gear ratios of that gearbox. The numbers should be 1352-XXXX. It will make difference as to first gear ratio and overdrive ratio.

Thank you. I'll see if I can get the lowdown on it.