Fender Skirt Seals

[Patrick brophy]

I am getting ready to do the final paint on my 1957 Thunderbird, and that would include the fender skirts.

I am unsure of the status of the fender skirt seals as far as paint. Do they get affixed to the the skirt ,before paint ,or after ?

The car is going to be white, and of course the rubber seals are black and will show up.

I bought a Body Trim and Sealant assembly manual from Faxon, and the fender skirts are not mentioned that I can see.

Any advise ?

[Dobie Gillis]

I'd lean toward installing the seals after painting. Rubber seals, being flexible, would cause paint on them to crack and flake and cause an unsightly mess IMO.

[Anteek29]

My '55 Vic skirt seals were installed after paint.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

... The car is going to be white, and of course the rubber seals are black and will show up.
Any advise ?

Installed after paint.
I agree they show their black color way too much on a light colored car, that's how they are.
(and paint would flake off of them anyway)
I'm considering trimming off the large-ish rounded outer edge, so only the remaining thin edge will show.
.

[Patrick brophy]

I never thought about the above issues regarding flaking and the flexibility aspect. I was just questioning the color issue.
Glad I asked.
Thanks for the heads up.

[KULTULZ]

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Now I am not making any suggestions here as I am CDO (correct alphabetical order of OCD) and like to see cars like this as OEM ASSY as much as practical, but ...

When bumper covers came out, you added a paint additive, elastomizer) to the paint to make it flexible when dried. Don't know if it would work here but just something to think about.

[mercman from oz]

Nice 1957 Ford Thunderbird.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by mercman from oz

Nice 1957 Ford Thunderbird.

Thanks. It might be again if I ever get it put back together.

Not apparent in that old photo are the: blotchy done-in-a-dusty-barn paint job, blown OD section in the transmission and the Oil pressure light on under 1000 rpm.
The engine and transmission have been rebuilt. Now it's mostly waiting for the painter to finish a couple other cars in line ahead of it so I can take it over to him.

Bought it because my wife originally wanted a yellow Bird but I couldn't find one for a good price back in '12 when I was first looking. The choices were either rusted out or highly restored & too expensive.

Decided to look for a '57 for the two years worth of factory improvements, and Sun Gold because it doesn't have the green-ish tint that Inca Gold has. Finding one with the original G color code took a while, apparently less than 1% were painted this color.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=5111

[Patrick brophy]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Now I am not making any suggestions here as I am CDO (correct alphabetical order of OCD) and like to see cars like this as OEM ASSY as much as practical, but ...

When bumper covers came out, you added a paint additive, elastomizer) to the paint to make it flexible when dried. Don't know if it would work here but just something to think about.

I will ask at the paint store. I have never painted complete car before ,so I have asked those guys a million questions, and they they have been very helpful. Same with the body work.
I feel like I owe someone a steak dinner

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

I will ask at the paint store. ...

Take one of the skirt seals with you so the folks behind the counter can see it. They're much softer and more flexible than a bumper cover.
I suspect getting paint to stick will be a real challenge, if it's even possible.
.

[Anteek29]

Dmsfrr: I did not know all those great colors were offered for '57 Birds. Thanks for sharing that color chart!

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Anteek29

Dmsfrr: I did not know all those great colors were offered for '57 Birds. Thanks for sharing that color chart!

That chart came out pretty small and blurry.
Here are a couple links with much better images.
http://www.portholeauthority.com/thu.../colors57.html

http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird...1957tbird.html

[paul2748]

Some of the colors were 1958 colors. The 57 Birds were built up to mid December 57 when 58 car production was going on and the 58 Tbirds were not ready for production

[zuburg]

I am now ready to install my fender skirts and have a few comments and questions. First my skirts do not have any holes for staples (nor any indication that they ever had holes on the inside of the skirt) so I will have to use just adhesive. I plan to use the 3M Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive. It is a contact adhesive that you apply to both surfaces and wait till both are tacky before assembling the parts.

Please view the attached photos. Do I have the seal positioned correctly on the top of the skirt?

On the last photo of the side, the wide portion of the seal does not curve to follow the curve of the skirt. How far should the seal go down the side? Do I need to trim the seal? If the seal needs to follow the curve, do you need to cut slits every so often to allow the wide portion to curve?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

I will ask at the paint store. I have never painted complete car before ,so I have asked those guys a million questions, and they they have been very helpful. Same with the body work.

Now that was just a suggestion Patrick. To me (and I am CDO), if the gaskets go to body color, it suggest (to me) a cheap all-over paint job.

I think (and it isn't my car - you do as you wish) to have it look correct (and to hold value), they should be left natural.

KULTULZ - Hunkering down and looking for his steel pot as usual ...

[Patrick brophy]

I should have done a follow up post regarding my inquiry with the paint store.

While I was speaking with the paint guy at the auto parts store, he introduced me to a fellow standing next to me who does antique car restorations.
He asked him.We were told ,no paint, and he gave us the name of an adhesive made by 3M which is a two part adhesive in a double tube that mixes when you use.you need a special gun and disposable tips. He said that was all he used .
Fascinating guy,I picked his brain for more then an hour.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

I should have done a follow up post regarding my inquiry with the paint store.

While I was speaking with the paint guy at the auto parts store, he introduced me to a fellow standing next to me who does antique car restorations.

He asked him.We were told ,no paint, and he gave us the name of an adhesive made by 3M which is a two part adhesive in a double tube that mixes when you use.you need a special gun and disposable tips. He said that was all he used .

Fascinating guy,I picked his brain for more then an hour.

... hmmpf ....

Interesting.

What I would like to know/see is how staples were applied during this period.

Here is an interesting post on wheel/tire clearances on a BIRD w skirts - https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum....t-to-do.10771/

[Patrick brophy]

The rear stone deflector under the rear bumper is also stapled on. That would require a bear of a staple machine.
I used the same 3M adhesive to fasten that on, and it worked out great.

I have also done some reading on the issues of the rear fender skirts. To say I am a little concerned would be an understatement.
New rubber gaskets make thinks more snug than normal. I had to do some body work in both fender wells, and do some metal replacement. I think I got it pretty close, but only time will tell.

[paul2748]

I think you can be pretty sure that were not hand installed. Besides the birds the sedans had skirts as optional equipment.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... hmmpf ....

Interesting.

What I would like to know/see is how staples were applied during this period.

Here is an interesting post on wheel/tire clearances on a BIRD w skirts - https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum....t-to-do.10771/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by paul2748

I think you can be pretty sure that were not hand installed.

If they were hand stapled, I would hate to meet that guy on the assembly line at a bar after he got off shift ...

[zuburg]

Can anyone respond to my questions in my post dated 7/29?

Thanks

[paul2748]

Don't see anything under your name for 7/29. re-ask the question in a new post.

Originally Posted by zuburg

Can anyone respond to my questions in my post dated 7/29?

Thanks

[KULTULZ]

It's POST #14 in this thread.

Look @ POST #16. Patrick will have the answer along with the adhesive he used.

[zuburg]

I just learned the posts have numbers. My post is #14 in this thread. I had some photos and asking to confirm that I had the seals on correctly and how the wide ends are supposed to fit around the curve.

[KULTULZ]

PATRICK BROPHY just did his (POST #16). Maybe PM him as to how he did his.

[Patrick brophy]

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Sorry Zuburg, I have been away for a few days.
First, I don't think the contact cement type adhesive is what you should be using. You will find that there is going to be many adjustments before you are through. You will need a adhesive that will allow that ,at least for a short time. I was told to use 3M 08115 panel bonding adhesive. It is a two part adhesive that requires a mixing tip,(disposable).
Start in the middle.
When you do these ,you need to take your time and use small clamps. The clamps can be as small as the clamps you use foe attaching 15-20 pieces of paper. Do small sections at a time, have a few q-tips to use to adjust the glue bead.
When you do the glue up, you want the bead of the seal to just nudge the edge of the skirt. You will find the in the middle of the skirt there is not much skirt to work with. That will help you adjust where you are as far a the bead to edge.
Your photos only show the back top of the skirt, but it looks correct. Just keep the front round bead flush with the edge.

You need to keep in mind that when you are finished ,you will need to install the skirt. The new rubber is larger then the old compressed junk that you took off. It will be a little tougher to put on now. I know you wanted to hear that.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

..., I have been away for a few days.

Let me guess, a fast turn to Paulsboro for an Italian Meatloaf dinner?

I surely miss S. JERSEY ...

[Patrick brophy]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Let me guess, a fast turn to Paulsboro for an Italian Meatloaf dinner?

I surely miss S. JERSEY ...

I wish. Man I do miss the food.From the Pizza, Steaks, Italian Ristorante's, Hell ,right on down to the Hot Dogs. Nothing better than a ripper.

Here, I got Walmart.............

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

I wish. Man I do miss the food.From the Pizza, Steaks, Italian Ristorante's, Hell ,right on down to the Hot Dogs. Nothing better than a ripper.

Here, I got Walmart.............

Have you tried any RAJUN CAJUN yet? You're near Mobile, right?

I think the hot dog is a lost art. Crazy for corn dogs ...

[zuburg]

Thanks. Any suggestions on how the wide section at each end bend to follow the curve of the skirt? It’s like a compound curve. First the curve from the thin part of the seal that follows the edge to the end of the skirt and the need to curve the wide part of the seal 90* to fit the curve of the body of the skirt. Hope that makes sense.

[Patrick brophy]

The seals that I used were fairly soft and pliable. I just started in the middle and worked outwards. When I got to the wide ends I just started with the outside edge and got that straight, and then worked the inside wide part . It followed pretty easy.
My seals appeared to be a little short, not by much but it was noticeable. I cheated to the rear of the skirt ,as there is a ,at least on mine, a chrome stone deflector in the front that would hide the front edge of the skirt.

[cokefirst]

I have owned several small thunderbirds for the past 50+ years and the fender skirt seals were all attached with staples. Since yours does not have the staple holes, I am guessing that you purchased or have new fender skirts never had the weatherstripping attached or the holes were filled in by the body shop when they were painted.

In any case, all the early Thunderbirds with skirts had black weatherstripping. The weatherstripping was never color matched to the paint, but I have seen some repaint jobs where they just painted the rubber too.

I would not use a two part epoxy to attach the weatherstripping as it will be difficult to remove once it hardens. I would use the black 3m weatherstripping adhesive. OR, purchase some staples and find an original skirt with the weatherstripping attached. using a small drill bit, you can start in the middle and work out to the edges and hand staple the weatherstripping onto the skirt. When I replace the weatherstripping on my cars, I remove the staples, and then reuse the holes and then hand bend the staples onto the skirts.

[dmsfrr]

I used Permatex weatherstrip adhesive on the skirt seals of my '55 and haven't had them off the car since then.
But I didn't take any 'during' photos. Hopefully later today or tomorrow morning...
.

[zuburg]

I bought a tube of the 3M weatherstripping adhesive too. It appears to be contact adhesive where you apply to both surfaces and wait until it gets tacky, then connect the two pieces. Is this contact adhesive the kind where you get one chance to position the pieces? or do you have some time to adjust before it cures?

[KULTULZ]

HERE - https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40069430/

It gives you time to play.

[dmsfrr]

Example photos. Just to have a general idea of how these replacements fit.
Not an example of how it should be done, it was a quick & dirty rush job at the time.

This is the left / drivers side skirt. Photos 1 thru 3 are the front edge, 4 & 5 are at the rear.

If the release lever in #4 looks different than yours, it's from a '57, not the same as '55 & '56.

The lower end of the seal in #5 looks crooked. It does pucker a bit over the latch and was trimmed slightly around it. photos 4 and 5
In reality the seal below the release lever looks better than in the photo and is low enough on the car it's hard to see when installed.

[zuburg]

Was this a contact type adhesive where you apply to both parts and let it dry until tacky, then connect parts together? Did it stick together immediately or do you have ability to reposition? Was it black?

[zuburg]

Thanks, these pictures were very helpful. I did not notice the flap on the wide part that went over the edge of the skirt. Your seals look a little longer than mine, you even were able to trim the point off one end. Did you stretch the seal to get the extra length, or were your seals just naturally longer?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by zuburg

Thanks, these pictures were very helpful. I did not notice the flap on the wide part that went over the edge of the skirt. Your seals look a little longer than mine, you even were able to trim the point off one end. Did you stretch the seal to get the extra length, or were your seals just naturally longer?

I had to make a small cut on the back edge at the release lever, that was the only cutting. I don't remember trimming them for length, they could have been an inch or so longer. IIRC they came from Casco 5 or 6 years ago.

[zuburg]

Well, I got too impatient and wanted to glue the fender skirt seals on, but this hot weather (over 90*) the adhesive got tacky immediately making installation a real pain.

I’ve glued the top first and am planning to glue the ends next. I have done a dry fit using clips and clamps. I put the flap on the inside of the wide section over the inside edge of the skirt as shown in DMSFRR’s photos in post #36.

It looks great on the end with the stone deflector but doesn’t seem to reach the edge I expected it to reach on the other end. My first photo shows the end with the stone deflector. The second photo shows the other end with an arrow pointing to the edge I expected the seal to reach. Is the seal where it is supposed to be? If it needs to reach the edge at the arrow, I won’t be able to put the flap over the inside edge.

[zuburg]

I now have the fender skirts on my T-bird. Like everything with my driver, they look pretty nice from a distance. I didn’t have the greatest luck with the 3M weatherstrip adhesive. It may have been due to the high temperatures we have had here like many areas of the US. It appeared to me that the adhesive did not adhere to the rubber as well as the fender skirt. There are several places where the rubber is not attached at all, and I can easily pull on the rubber where it is attached, and it just easily separates from the skirt.

Even though I had taped off the skirt to try and keep adhesive from getting on the front of the skirt, I have some spots where the adhesive oozed out and got on the front edge of the skirt. Is there anything that would help remove the adhesive without hurting the paint?

[paul2748]

A wax and grease remover used for paint prep might remove it. . Check the 3M products website, they may have something specific . They also may have a Tech Line that might help you.

[dmsfrr]

WD-40? I've had it take road tar off of paint very nicely.

[KULTULZ]

How fresh is the paint, one or two stage?