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07-27-2022, 12:34 PM | #41 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I have owned 7 little thunderbirds and it has been my experience that the normal operating temperature on the factory gauge is at the end of the red line closest to hot. Purchase an infrared temperature checker (you can buy and inexpensive one from Harbor Freight) and check the actual operating temperature.
With a 7 # cap at sea level, the boiling point of water is about 228 degrees. So if your temperature at the top of the radiator is less than that (say 218 degrees) you are good. The 180 thermostat is supposed to keep the coolant at the minimum of 180 degrees. Once it reaches that temperature, the thermostat opens and should be fully open at 200 degrees. Remember that what we call a temperature gauge is really an indicator since it is not calibrated with actual numbers. Last edited by cokefirst; 07-27-2022 at 12:35 PM. Reason: capital letter and paragraph placement |
07-27-2022, 05:46 PM | #42 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
What happens if and when the coolant temp exceeds the boiling point, the cap (if operating properly and the correct pressure rating) will open and expel coolant to somewhat normalize internal system pressure. The trouble is as the coolant cools, that open cap will draw outside air and that is where your air pockets and aerated coolant comes into play.
It needs a recovery system. EDIT - The above is also true when the engine is shutdown and heat soak heats the coolant to a point where it forces the cap pressure release to open and burps coolant all over you nice cobblestone driveway. As the engine cools, the coolant contracts drawing outside air into the system before the cap relief fully closes. You then have air pockets in the cooling system which may cause further overheating problem(s).
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DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order) Last edited by KULTULZ; 09-04-2022 at 04:17 AM. Reason: ADD ADDITIONAL INFO |
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07-28-2022, 09:27 AM | #43 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I live by a simple rule....If it ain't losing water it ain't over heating....engine will be fine as long as it has coolant in it.
Got caught in traffic in Memphis on a 100 plus day, temp went up to 220, turned the air off much to the wifes ire, finally got back on the road and all was well. That was some 60K miles ago on that ol 351C in my 36.
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07-28-2022, 12:02 PM | #44 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I generally run aftermarket improved fan blades on my vintage vehicles, have a couple old cars with AC, electric fan with shroud or a thermal clutch type.
Many years ago I had a '65 Chevy C20 camper special, V/8 AT with a large RV camper on it. The first two years I had THE '65 I had nothing but trouble with it running hot, gauge almost maxed out. Tried everything to cool the engine down, larger radiator, HD fan assembly, larger trans cooler coolant recovery system. I finally put a mechanical temp gauge on the engine, leaving the stock gauge in place. The mechanical gauge never got above 200/215, 15 lb cap and 50/50 coolant put the boiling point to about 250, the engine did not boil over and the coolant recovery system did it's job. Going over the Donner Pass in August 1970 towards Reno the trans over-heated and burped fluid from the fill tube onto a hot manifold, lots of smoke, thought the engine was on fire, then noted the smoke was intermediate, just short puffs, pulled over as soon as I could, leaving the engine running I grabbed my fire extinguisher and slowly opened the hood. Seeing what the problem was I let the engine idle for awhile to lower the temp then continued on to Reno. I went to the GMC agency in Reno to have the truck checked over, other than the trans fluid being a little low everything seemed to be fine. Myself and a mechanic took the truck for a test drive, he suggested that I run the trans, a TH400 a little low on the dip stick to avoid oil boil over from over heating. The mechanic then asked me what year was the truck, I told him '65, he replied that GM had a lot of trouble with the '65 C10-20's running hot, there was a factory recall on the trucks, their shop saw a lot of them coming out of California with reputed overheating problems. The problem was a faulty gauge, the fix was a factory supplied resister in the wire to the gauge. Moral to the story, it is very common to make a minor issue into a big deal, a mole hill becomes a mountain.
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07-28-2022, 04:00 PM | #45 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
It was over 240 and rising. At that point it was bubbling coolant at weak hose points. When I checked the bypass hose, I notice the nipple on the thermostat housing was corroded and Deformed so I bought a new housing and bypass nipple while I was at it. I just finished putting it all back together earlier today. I did use the technique you described of putting the bypass nipple in the hose, connecting the hose to the housing first, then just dropping the bypass nipple in place. Went nice and smooth for a change.
I plan to add coolant tomorrow and doing another pressure check to make sure everthing is tight. Then a test drive on a 94 degree day. |
07-28-2022, 05:09 PM | #46 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
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Remove the radiator cap when the engine is cool or at least not too hot. Then let it run (with the garage door open) until the engine gets up to operating temperature and look into the top of the radiator. You should be able to see the coolant circulating. |
07-28-2022, 06:36 PM | #47 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I have tried that to confirm it is circulating, but I have heard it won’t circulate if under 800 RPM. I wonder if that is why I can’t tell if it is circulating. Next time I will get my wife or a friend to help by increasing the RPM. I have taken temperatures of the thermostat housing, upper/lower radiator hose and 3 places on the radiator fins (top, middle and lower). The temps on the radiator fins progressively got cooler from top to bottom. I thought that indicated it was circulating?
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07-29-2022, 12:55 AM | #48 | ||
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
Quote:
This is one problem with BIRDS, the other being a bad pump and/or WP spacer (8A510) volute and/or timing cover volute. How long has it been since a complete cooling system service, hose/thermostat and coolant replacement? 1st EDIT - Here is a basic tutorial - https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/1955...d-overheating/ Your IGN SYS is LOAD-O-MATIC and if the ignition advance is inoperative, will definitely cause over heating (1955/56 BIRD). 2nd EDIT - https://thunderbird.us/
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DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order) Last edited by KULTULZ; 09-05-2022 at 12:14 PM. Reason: THE USUAL |
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07-29-2022, 10:43 AM | #49 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
The cheap, infrared temperature readers aren't particularly accurate; my HF gun can be off by several degrees.
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07-29-2022, 01:03 PM | #50 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I’ve just recently rebuilt this car. Remanufactured engine, all new hoses and belts, new large opening thermostat, new coolant, and even installed the special high flow water pump with the two impellers.
I do have the original 4 blade fan and original water pump spacer. I do know plan to increase the RPMs on my next test to confirm the coolant is circulating. I have read about the smaller pulley, that might be next. Will it only overheat on days with very high temperatures like 85 degrees or higher? |
07-29-2022, 04:05 PM | #51 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Zuburg,
After reading these posts again I would like to circle back to the original post. I still see two things in there strongly indicate a radiator problem. 1. Mice made a restaurant out of the radiator while it was sitting for a long time. 2. When checking the radiator temps with a temp gun, if the readings were accurate, the difference between the inlet and outlet temps was 48F. This much higher than the usual 10 to 15F in a typical radiator. The link below has some great info on cooling system operation, especially in the first two pages. https://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%...ing%20Pg3.html Another concern is which way did the radiator get flushed, from inlet to outlet, or outlet to inlet. I assume inlet to outlet so as to drive the out the mouse dinner out, rather than in. Because low coolant velocity through the system can also cause high temp drop you need to make sure you have some coolant movement at idle. If you do, then I think the next step is to verify the temp drop with a couple of thermocouples and an electronic thermometer. If it is actually that high, pull the radiator for rodding out or high pressure washing. Don |
07-29-2022, 04:18 PM | #52 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
I was hoping to not have to drain all of the new coolant and pull the radiator. I’ll finish wrapping up my latest work and do another test and take temps with an IR thermometer & get some data to help decide.
I did flush the radiator from top to bottom. I kept pouring water through until no sign of bird seeds which was over 25 gallon jugs of water. I heard the early birds did not circulate coolant under 800 RPMs (idle). Is that also the case with the special high flow water pump that has two impellers? |
07-29-2022, 06:05 PM | #53 | ||
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
See this link... https://www.classictbird.com/pdf/H2O...st-results.pdf Please excuse the fact that this linked page is nearly 20 years old. The water pump shown was a diy example that was quickly replaced with a much better looking version. I find myself agreeing with Late model, your initial temperature readings from post #1 could easily indicate poor coolant flow. Quote:
. Last edited by dmsfrr; 07-29-2022 at 08:35 PM. |
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07-29-2022, 06:37 PM | #54 | |||
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
The flow test will determine if rodding out (or a new radiator is necessary). Quote:
EXACTLY which pump did you buy and install? EDIT - Quote:
http://Was it one of CASCO's new cas... spacer usage? CASCO 8501HO - It is used with the spacer ...
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DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order) Last edited by KULTULZ; 07-30-2022 at 01:33 AM. Reason: DUMB A$$ |
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07-29-2022, 07:10 PM | #55 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
- Repairing a Radiator by Rodding or Recoring - CLICK HERE - https://www.roundforge.com/articles/...g-or-recoring/
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07-29-2022, 08:02 PM | #56 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
CASCO's pump does not eliminate the spacer/usage. It has longer impellers that reach back into the spacer to move water.
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07-29-2022, 08:46 PM | #57 | |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
Four pins with two springs. If the plate the points & condenser are mounted on is stuck or does not move with vacuum applied, the ignition timing is not advancing. This will make the engine run hot. https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/crac...aust-manifold/ . Last edited by dmsfrr; 07-29-2022 at 10:23 PM. |
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07-30-2022, 01:17 AM | #58 | |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
My reading comprehension seems to be lacking ...
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07-30-2022, 01:43 AM | #59 | |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
Quote:
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07-30-2022, 04:11 PM | #60 |
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Re: Checking radiator for overheating problem with 1956 Thunderbird
What if you have a 13 # cap, which is what I have. That was supposedly the right one for this car.
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