28 A, Bad shake... guidance please...

[mustangbrandon]

Hey there,

I just acquired a 1928 Roadster from my Uncle. He has had it since about 1970 and I have 8mm movies of me riding in the rumble seat (throwing candy in a parade. About 1975, around 4 years old. While it's not perfect, it's staying in the family. Cosmetically it needs work but it's solid as can be and you could eat off the bottom. Got some tinkering on it to do, but runs like a top.

But, for no apparent reason (that I can detect) it will start shaking fairly violently in the front end. Slow speeds it seems, as you can get it going decent and it won't do it. But when it does, you yank the wheel and it stops. So... Trying to determine where to start looking. I know this is vague in description but really the best I can explain it. King pins? Just worn linkage? I know that nothing has been done to the front end in the time my Uncle owned it, possibly before but he definitely didn't replace anything. This is my first Model A so I don't really know where to start looking and would rather have a direction in mind to start before I just take the whole front apart. Thanks for any help! And, while I love my hot rods, this one is staying like it should...

[1930artdeco]

It is called the death wobble. You will need to replace the steering knuckles/balls and rebuild the tie/drag link/pitman arms. Then it will go away after an alignment.

Mike

[mercman from oz]

1928 Ford Model A Roadster with a bad shake - any suggestions - mustangbrandon

[chrs1961815]

It could also be that your radius ball cap nuts are loose. But more likely than not something in or the whole suspension is worn.

[Flathead]

Jack it up and see what is loose; tie rod ends, drag link, kingpins, wishbone, steering box/pitman arm etc. Be sure the alignment is right, caster and toe-in can affect a shimmy if not right. There is no reason to have front end trouble in an A if things are as they should be.

[Robert/Texas]

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I struggled with this for along time with my ’28 roadster. With a lot of help from this forum I found that the radius ball socket was a poorly made repro. When I replaced it the problem went away. Thanks again to this forum.

Robert

[Rob Doe]

How much play is in the steering at the steering wheel? (Car on the ground) Correcting an incorrect Toe In setting has been known to eliminate the shimmy aka. "The Death Wobble". Check the simple stuff first. You might get lucky.

[Ivan in southeast va.]

I would do what Flathead said, jack it up and look for anything that might be loose.

[1crosscut]

I sort of do the opposite and don't jack it up but leave it on the ground to check for looseness.
Have your wife or sweetie sit in the drivers seat and turn the steering wheel back and forth to somewhere around 10:00 and 2:00 bumping it up firmly against resistance while you are under the car looking at the connections on the ends of the tie rods, drag link, ball on the end of the wish bone, steering box to frame rail bolts etc... looking for any looseness. This may take a while so be prepared to take her out to dinner afterwards. Tighten up anything loose that you find. Then move on to jacking it up and check for looseness in your wheel bearings and king pins.
After that check to see that your toe in is correct.

If someone has replaced the original steel set up on the wish bone ball with the rubber one replace it with the original set up. If you find that the ball on the end of the wishbone is overly worn add the spacer to the top of the ball that is available from the vendors or weld it up and file it back to round.

[mustangbrandon]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. Lucky for me I have a lift so I can get under it while wifey get board turning the wheel It's ok though, I got her a 56 T bird so she's into it too... I'll report back what I find...

Thanks!!

Brandon

[J Franklin]

When I watch Bandstand and some young lass does the Shimmy I Don't register it as "death wobble"!

[mustangbrandon]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Jack it up and see what is loose; tie rod ends, drag link, kingpins, wishbone, steering box/pitman arm etc. Be sure the alignment is right, caster and toe-in can affect a shimmy if not right. There is no reason to have front end trouble in an A if things are as they should be.

Forgot to reply back but I did what you said. And immediately found out it was the wheel bearings... Me thinks my Uncle didn't wrench on it since he got it in 1968 or whatever... Gooder than new now. Thanks for the advice!

[katy]

Glad you got it fixed. Thanks for the update, better late than never.

[gdmn852]

Hello, nice looking roadster, glad you found the problem, lot of times I think the kingpins get neglected as you need a press and reamer or hone to change.

[BillCNC]

I've always been very intrigued by the death wobble considering I don't have it and never felt it before. Silly me likes the puzzle it provides. I do remember reading somewhere in a model "A" book a while back, that one of the major causes of the death wobble is because the castor being incorrect - not enough castor, and to much castor makes it harder to pull out of a turn, never self centering from the turn.

Can anyone with experience with the infamous death wobble can confirm or deny this?

Regards
Bill

[katy]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

It is called the death wobble.

I detest that term. Never heard it until the internet. I always knew the shaking as a shimmy, and still call it that.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

I've always been very intrigued by the death wobble considering I don't have it and never felt it before. Silly me likes the puzzle it provides. I do remember reading somewhere in a model "A" book a while back, that one of the major causes of the death wobble is because the castor being incorrect - not enough castor, and to much castor makes it harder to pull out of a turn, never self centering from the turn.

Can anyone with experience with the infamous death wobble can confirm or deny this?

Regards
Bill

Not easy to adjust the camber on a Model A.

[Dino's A]

I found out that all my stuff was good UNTIL I re adjusted the steering box.
Way too much play on the steering wheel. Seems good now, no more shimmey yet,
and I have tried to get it to do it.

And yes, wheel bearings can do it as well as all suggestions posted here.

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

Not easy to adjust the camber on a Model A.

Castor, not camber.

Regards
Bill

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by katy

I detest that term. Never heard it until the internet. I always knew the shaking as a shimmy, and still call it that.

I always associated the term with motorcycle's, bicycles and skateboards. For myself after 40-years of time passing, my elbows, knees knuckles can still prove it to this day.

Regards
Bill

[sdpet56]

I inherited a 30 5 window coup from my father before he passed and drove it for 5 or 6 months with no problem...Then one day on the way home I hit a small pothole and the car shook like a dog s#####ng razor blades...Dad (Was a depression era kid ) and put drywall screws in the windshield hinge and the car shook so bad the screws broke holding the windshield in...Welllll here I am trying to hold the steering wheel in one hand and the windshield in the other and fighting to get the car slowed down and keep it between the guard rails...I burst out laughing thinking I have done 146 MPH in a Corvette and I was going to die in a 90 year old car doing 35 MPH...I was only a couple miles from home and never went over 20 MPH for the rest of the way home...I jacked the car up and the king pins were in bad shape...I had a friend install and ream the bushings, replaced the king pins and have not had a problem since with shaking...Got a funny story out of this and hope I never have that happen again...

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by mustangbrandon

Forgot to reply back but I did what you said. And immediately found out it was the wheel bearings... Me thinks my Uncle didn't wrench on it since he got it in 1968 or whatever... Gooder than new now. Thanks for the advice!

Forgive me for raining on your parade (maybe), but to usually comes back as something else. I'm not saying it will, just that it's likely! There fore, like everyone here has said, check everything! Another cause that can be hard to track down and can drive you crazy is the spring perch bearing. Check the distance from the spring perch to the shock link.. What's happening is the bushings are worn out and the spring is touching the spring perch. There should be at least 1/8" clearance between them. Unless you're a mechanic, don't try to disassemble anything without someone who knows how this works! Springs can kill, the rear is worse, but the front can be dangerous too. Get the parts out of the car, decide if you only need bushings and replace them. It'll make a world of difference.
Terry

[eagle]

If you've ever driven a vehicle with a true Death Wobble, you'll agree with the term. A shimmy is not even close to a true death wobble.

[ronn]

had this happen on a ford taurus........ buddy certified big deal mechanic told me it was
one of the joints in the front end. I begged to differ and thought it might be a broken belt in a radial tire.

swapped a rear tire with what I thought was the problem tire in the front and yes, a "broken" radial belt. easy fix. that may not be true for most model As, but I do see more and more guys converting to radials.........

[RoadsterJohn]

Struggling with this same issue on my '28 Tudor. It was restored back in the late 60's but only has about 1500 miles on it since then.

[Jim Mason]

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This might help

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by RoadsterJohn

Struggling with this same issue on my '28 Tudor. It was restored back in the late 60's but only has about 1500 miles on it since then.

I hear variations of this all the time! Variation 1, It doesn't have to be good, it only has to look good! Variation 2, US drivers don't really drive their cars, they transport them be trailer, So you don't have to knock yourself out on the mechanicals. You get the picture! Many "restoration" shops don't like the extensive handwork and tedious fitting it sometimes takes to restore a chassis and they will make the paint meticoulus but gloss over things that don't show so much. By comparison, In the UK, a lot more cars are driven to shows and other gatherings, not trailered. Restored car are raced or driven in rallies, where they get their pretty paint jobs all splashed up with mud and who knows what. Britons drive their cars and mechanical misfits show up rather quickly. Maybe we have got to stop producing so many Trailer queens?
Terry

[nkaminar]

I have to chime in here. I bought a 29 CCPU many years ago that was supposedly restored. No grease anywhere, including the wheel bearings. The transmission was popping out of second. I had to grease everything and rebuild the transmission. I ended up breaking an axle and rebuilding the rear end too. Plus the wood was rotten in the top and one door never did fit right. And the brakes needed rebuilding. But it looked purddy.

[MrBruce]

Before I'd do anything I would check the front end for toe in. I picked up a 31 Pickup a few months back and couldn't drive it 5 mph it shimmied so bad. I checked the alignment and it was out 1 1/2 in. I set it at 1/16th and can drive it 50 mph and it has not shimmied at all. It still needs the steering sector rebuilt but at least it's drivable. I wouldn't start taking anything apart. You can also tighten up a worn steering sector a slight bit also. Just my experience six months ago. I drive it as my daily driver

[Jet96]

On my ccpu it ended up being the ball on the pitman arm was worn nearly flat. It would drive fine and then if you hit a bump it would start shaking its head.

[Terry, NJ]

Jet, Check your other steering balls too. wheel bearings too, even though they're pretty obvious. The spring perch bearings. When they're down on the springs, you know they're shot, and they will cause a wobble! King pins should be checked when it's jacked up for the wheel bearings. Wheel wobble from bent wheels must be considered also. There was a guy named Thomas Wesenberg (R.I.P.). Very nice guy, beyond anyone as a craftsman and a mechanic! and Tom insisted that wheel alignment, toe in, toe out was more important than anything. I wish Tom were still here to give us guidance !
Terry

[WHN]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Jack it up and see what is loose; tie rod ends, drag link, kingpins, wishbone, steering box/pitman arm etc. Be sure the alignment is right, caster and toe-in can affect a shimmy if not right. There is no reason to have front end trouble in an A if things are as they should be.

Front end, brakes, springs, and shocks. You can have a great looking car, but without these things being right, you have nothing.

I would do as Flathead says. Check everything. It most likely is the sum total of a number of different things.

Enjoy your car.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by katy

I detest that term. Never heard it until the internet. I always knew the shaking as a shimmy, and still call it that.

While driving my father's '49 F-1, going 50 on the highway and hitting a bump and then having the entire front end and steering wheel shake so violently to the point you think the front end is going to fold underneath you, death wobble is a gentle term.