Starter Drive Bendix Spring Question

[TMB]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Here's my update once I finally had the time to work on the A. Decided to go with a rebuilt starter and new usa made Bendix. Reassembled the starter Bendix and switch. Installed on the Model A. Starter would not turn over initially. Electrical "click" was audible when pushing the starter switch. Tried a few more times, then it started. Sounded more responsive than the previous starter. Thought I was done.

Last week, attempted to start the car again but it would not turn over. Could hear the electrical "click" when pushing starter switch. Could not hear any rotation at all. Removed starter.

Bench testing after removal of the Bendix with a fully charged battery. Armature would not spin the starter initially. After checking connections and readjusting the cables a couple half turns, then a slow rotation it suddenly took off as I think it should with high RPM whir. Retested two days straight on the bench and spun instantly when applying jumper cable to copper starter terminal. Battery is delivering 6.2 amps and 6.2 amps at the jumper cables.

Figuring something was stuck and now "unstuck", I returned starter to the car and made all connections. Alas, nothing but the electrical "clicking" again. Starter will not spin.

I'm stumped. What am I missing here? Do I have a bad starter? Bad Bendix? Did something else go bad initially when I thought it was the starter (see beginning of post)? Did I harm something else when the original Bendix failed? The car did start for me one time with the new Bendix and starter. Any input much appreciated.

[rotorwrench]

I would suspect either the starter (dead winding in the armature) or the engine is locking up for some reason. I wonder if the rebuilder used an old armature or a new armature. I'd also check the starter switch internal shaft insulator piece for condition. It's just a small cross shaped part made out of reinforced micarta or it should be unless you have one of the early box type switches or a modern repro of unknown origin.

[TMB]

I was able to roll the car back into the garage. The T-shaped switching mechanism is new as are all the insulators and nuts. Ultimate test would be installing another working starter but that is impractical. Starter was a new rebuild from Snyder's. Snyder's has been a good source thus far. Hope it continues.

[Brentwood Bob]

Do you have a fuse attached to the starter? Too long mounting screws used for the new starter switch, or the fuse can short.

[Bill G]

Did you try to hand crank the engine to make sure is turns freely? When bits come off the starter Bendix, they wind up at the bottom of the flywheel housing. They can possibly get jammed. Check for that.

[bobv]

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Poor ground?

[katy]

Originally Posted by Joe K

There have been reports of new springs being wound "backwards" - which may be good for some applications - but not the Model A.
Joe K

Those fit a Model T, also possibly other makes and models.

[katy]

Originally Posted by TMB

Battery is delivering 6.2 amps and 6.2 amps at the jumper cables.. Any input much appreciated.

I suspect you mean 6.2 volts, not amps. The starter draws a lot more amps than that.

[katy]

Originally Posted by bobv

Poor ground?

Ditto. Try a jumper cable from the battery positive terminal to the engine block, see if that makes a difference.

[TMB]

• Checked fuse. Intact. Replaced anyway. No change.
• Flywheel rotates freely with hand crank. No obstruction.
• I have an additional ground cable from pos battery terminal to engine. Starter intermittently will not spin with bench testing.
• Removed all paint and rust between starter housing and flywheel housing (ground again)
• Yes, 6.2 volts not amps.

Thanks for everyone's input. Gave Snyder's a call and they recommended shipping it back for testing. Will provide follow up report.

[katy]

Suggest you try cleaning the commutator and brushes. If there's oil there, that could be your problem. Look for electric motor cleaner. WD-40 may work, not sure.

[TMB]

I'm getting frustrated with my continuing starter problems. Sent my newly rebuilt starter back to Snyder's for testing. Technician Joe was very helpful but could not find anything wrong. Starter spins without difficulty. I bought a new starter switch and a new braided battery grounding strap to be sent back with my starter just in case.

Reattached a previously purchased new USA made Bendix to the starter plus new starter switch and reinstalled the starter. Connected jumper cable between pos battery terminal and flywheel housing bolt in addition to new braided starter strap to a bare metal surface. Again attempted starting resulting in a click sound but no spin. Tried again and only the clicking sound from the starter switch contact was heard when attempting to start. No spin at all.

I'm at a loss. This car started every time without difficulty until the old Bendix broke.
Could it be the new Bendix failing to engage the flywheel? The new Bendix is close but not exactly like the one that broke. Starter spins on the bench but not in the car. Even more puzzling - I did get the current Bendix and starter to start the car once but never again

What am I missing? What could I possibly try next?

[woofa.express]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I will never use a modern starter drive again. They do not engage the ring gear to full depth and thus cause wear and greatly reduce the life of the gear. They were never meant for a Model A - they are adapted from some other application. Stay clear and use a "proper" one.

I too fitted a modern drive and found it didn't fully engage. Replaced it with spring.

[midgetracer]

6.2 volts seems a bit low. try measuring voltage with the lights on. It may be a bad cell in the battery, or the cable to the starter switch has a poor connection. I have had a cable look good, but have a poor connection at one end. You should have more like 6.5 volts. When the starter switch is engaged, the voltage will probably drop to a level that will not engage the starter. If the bendix was bad, the starter would still spin, but not engage the flywheel.

[katy]

Have you verified that the 3 starter mounting bolts are not too long? If they're too long they can jam the flywheel from turning.

[TMB]

Problem solved. After making all the corrections and having the starter retested the only thing left was to consider checking the 6 month old battery. Turns out the battery was the problem. NAPA 6V Commercial #7224 purchased 3/2022 (manufactured 11/2021). At full charge, would only deliver 30 A. Replaced with new battery and car started immediately.

I learned quite a bit from this problem. Wanted to close the loop for all interested and involved. All suggestions led me to the eventual fix so thank you.

[midgetracer]

Happy you found the solution. Volts is not everything in evaluating a battery.

[Jet96]

I'm glad you got it sorted. Batteries are kind of a crap shoot anymore. Some don't last at all and then the next one will work flawlessly for 8 or 9 years...