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Old 09-29-2020, 11:46 PM   #181
GRutter
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry

Good news. I was disappointed with the lower oil pressure and need to go to 20w-50 oil.

Are there any concerns regarding cylinder wall lubrication without the dippers, or do the rod caps extend into the tray ?

Do you have plans to reassemble and run additional testing now that the problem appears to have been found? Did you do another oil analysis after running at that low pressure ?
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Old 09-30-2020, 04:06 AM   #182
Bruce of MN
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Is the relief valve one of these?

https://www.mcmaster.com/4772K4/
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:54 AM   #183
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, I have a few questions.
1. How does the valve chamber get adequate lubrication to the valve stems and top of the lifters?
2. Earlier you mentioned the valve kit from AER was used with pressed in valve guides. Were the pistons from AER also used? If not is there any reason why not? I have them in an engine that I’m am currently running and am very happy with them. They hold good compression and have the thinner later style rings like a small block Chevy, your crankshaft bearings also fit a small block Chevy.
3. I noticed a seal installation tool for the rear main crankshaft seals in photo 2020-09-11 09.46.28-1.jpg. Will that be included in the kit?
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Old 09-30-2020, 04:07 PM   #184
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry
Good news. I was disappointed with the lower oil pressure and need to go to 20w-50 oil.
Are there any concerns regarding cylinder wall lubrication without the dippers, or do the rod caps extend into the tray ?
Do you have plans to reassemble and run additional testing now that the problem appears to have been found? Did you do another oil analysis after running at that low pressure ?
GRutter


Our break-in of the new engine was brutal. We assembled it and broke it in by running it at 3100 RPM (75 MPH) for 6 hours straight. With the low oil pressure, we were curious to see what would come out when we drained the oil. The drained oil was dark and we filtered it to see if there were any particles. There were no particles and I attribute the darkness to the fact that oil temperature was in the 260 degree Fahrenheit range for the full 6 hours. In an effort to get a little more oil pressure, the crankcase was refilled with O'Reilly 20w-50 oil.

The connecting rods have reinforcing ribs that extend the same amount as the rod dippers on a stock engine. The dipper tray was in place, so splash lubrication to the cylinder walls and wrist pin proved to be adequate.

No additional testing is planned. The missing 3/8-16 UNC setscrew plug was the cause of low oil pressure. The only oil analysis performed was to look at the color and strain for particles. Both the 10w-40 and 10w-50 oil darkened, but no visible particles were found.




Is the relief valve one of these?
https://www.mcmaster.com/4772K4/
Bruce

The relief valve is a modified McMaster Carr item 4772K65, 40 PSI. The modification was to rethread the shank from 3/8-18 NPT to 1/8-27 NPT. The 4772K6 series of valves have a much larger relief orifice than the 4772K4 series. The relief valve never relieved anything because of the missing 3/8-16 UNC setscrew.




Terry, I have a few questions.
1. How does the valve chamber get adequate lubrication to the valve stems and top of the lifters?
2. Earlier you mentioned the valve kit from AER was used with pressed in valve guides. Were the pistons from AER also used? If not is there any reason why not? I have them in an engine that I’m am currently running and am very happy with them. They hold good compression and have the thinner later style rings like a small block Chevy, your crankshaft bearings also fit a small block Chevy.
3. I noticed a seal installation tool for the rear main crankshaft seals in photo 2020-09-11 09.46.28-1.jpg. Will that be included in the kit?
Dennis


1) The valve chamber has 4 circular windows in the floor that allow splash and oil mist to enter for lubrication. These windows proved to be adequate, however a purchaser could enlarge them.
2) The valve kit was from AER and used pressed in guides. They were chosen and installed before we arrived at the 3rd party evaluator. The pistons used were Egge and they used the modern narrow rings (Hastings ring set 745). All interfaces on the new engine are identical to original Ford, so the choice of parts is up to the engine builder. Everything on the new engine fit together without any fitting. The valves were hand lapped with a "Hand Valve Grinder" (NAPA SER501) which is a wooden stick with a suction cup on each end, and the pistons and rings fit without honing or filing. All bearings were Plastigaged and the clearance was .002 inch.
3) The seal installation tool was made from a PVC pipe fitting that I bought at Home Depot. It will not be provided with the kit of engine parts. If the seal is bottomed out against the shoulder, it is square with the seal rubbing surface. The seal cavity is 1 inch deep and can accommodate 2 seals. If 2 seals are used, some long life lubrication must be used between seals to lubricate the lip on the rear seal.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:46 PM   #185
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, can you give us some details on your forthcoming flywheel?
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:00 PM   #186
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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This is exciting! Who's gonna be the first to hot rod it? Interested to see what kind of power it will be able to handle
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:15 PM   #187
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Terry, can you give us some details on your forthcoming flywheel?
You may want to look at this page for info on the flywheel.

http://www.modelaengine.com/19-other-parts.html

As I understand this is in the works and may change?
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:39 PM   #188
Richard in Anaheim CA
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Since there will be 5 cam bearings, it would be a shame not to use all 5. You might look into having a batch of billet blanks available for cam grinders.
Another profit center.

Richard
Anaheim CA
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:16 AM   #189
Russ/40
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by 4bangerbob View Post
You may want to look at this page for info on the flywheel.

http://www.modelaengine.com/19-other-parts.html

As I understand this is in the works and may change?
Thanks Bob. Seems a bit complex. Is there a discussion somewhere that explains the "why" of its construction? It looks like all attempts are made to eliminate any press fitting- ring gear to body, and iron surface to body. Is it balanced?
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:30 PM   #190
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Thanks Bob. Seems a bit complex. Is there a discussion somewhere that explains the "why" of its construction? It looks like all attempts are made to eliminate any press fitting- ring gear to body, and iron surface to body. Is it balanced?
from the picture shown is appear the construction is such that there is a cast iron disk that is bolted to the main aluminium flywheel using socket head cap screws. I appears in the photo that the cast iron disk extends down to encompass the piolet bearing and mounting flange to the crankshaft. The ring gear is bolted onto the aluminium body, rather then shrunk on?

But the design may well have been revised since the photo was published.

would it be balanced?, I would certainly hope so, The crank and rods are all balanced at the factory from accounted published to date.

I am sure Terry can clarify.
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Old 10-08-2020, 11:39 PM   #191
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, can you give us some details on your forthcoming flywheel? Russ

You may want to look at this page for info on the flywheel.
http://www.modelaengine.com/19-other-parts.html
As I understand this is in the works and may change? 4bangerbob

Thanks Bob. Seems a bit complex. Is there a discussion somewhere that explains the "why" of its construction? It looks like all attempts are made to eliminate any press fitting- ring gear to body, and iron surface to body. Is it balanced? Russ

from the picture shown is appear the construction is such that there is a cast iron disk that is bolted to the main aluminium flywheel using socket head cap screws. I appears in the photo that the cast iron disk extends down to encompass the piolet bearing and mounting flange to the crankshaft. The ring gear is bolted onto the aluminium body, rather then shrunk on?
But the design may well have been revised since the photo was published.
would it be balanced?, I would certainly hope so, The crank and rods are all balanced at the factory from accounted published to date.
I am sure Terry can clarify. 4bangerbob




4bangerbob, you are correct in the description of the flywheel shown in the picture.

Weight of a flywheel means little. What is important is the "polar moment of inertia". The polar moment of inertia is an engineering quantity that takes weight and location into consideration. If the weight of a shaft is concentrated at the center of rotation, it has low inertia and is easy to accelerate. If the same weight is far from the center of rotation, it has high inertia and takes more effort to accelerate. 55 years ago, my job while in college was to calculate the mass properties including polar moments of inertia for the Mayall telescope on Kitt Peak, AZ.

I machined a few 22 pound flywheels like the picture and they were a lot of work. The center and friction surface were machined from a Model A flywheel, and the "bell" to support the ring gear was machined from cast 356 aluminum.
Press fits are difficult to guarantee because aluminum expands or contracts 3 times what steel or iron does during the same temperature change.
Although all parts were a press fit at room temperature, my conscience and fear of something coming loose forced me into making mechanical connections.
The cut down Model A section was bolted with 12 socket head cap screws to the aluminum bell section, and the ring gear was secured with 10-32 UNF bolts and nuts.
Drilling the hardened ring gear for the 10-32 UNF bolts was a challenge, and if I were to do it again, I would have the holes plunged EDM'd.

The new flywheel shown in the videos weighs 30 pounds without the ring gear. It was an engineering sample and machined from steel. Production flywheels will be identical, but made from grey iron.
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