1933 Victoria Seats

[the.secret.victoria]

I have a not 100% correctly restored '33 Victoria that's missing some seat related hardware for both the front and rear seats. It is a right hand drive car.

I did purchase some various books (EFV8 '33/34 Restoration Manual, "As Henry Built It", and both the '34 and '38 Hardware and Trimming Supplies) to help me try to track down the missing parts, but they've been of only modest help. The facts that: '33 and '34 shared "40-740" for the Victoria, Ford entirely changed the front seat design from '33 to '34, and "740" being omitted from some part numbers (when it probably shouldn't be for '33) is making it tough to decipher which part numbers are appropriate.

It appears the LHD '33 Victoria and Tudor shared the same front seats based on the photos and parts listings, and it looks like my seats follow suit albeit installed on opposite sides. It'd make sense to me that the RHD and LHD cars would use the same seats in the respective positions.

For the rear, it also seems logical the seat is the same between LHD and RHD variants. Is it the same between Victoria and Tudor (and Fordor?) sedan, though? How about between the '33 and '34 Victorias?


So, based on that, I've come to the following conclusions about my car thus far:

• Driver's seat is missing the mechanism used to adjust and hold the seat's fore/aft position.
• Passenger seat is missing the correct pin at the lower pivot (floor) location on both sides, and currently uses a bolt and nut instead. Assumed P/Ns: B-57445 or 40-705260/78-705265 or 40-705392, plus whatever nuts/washers/clips are associated.
• Rear seat upper cushion is missing the correct hinge mechanism at the bottom, assuming it should have one, or other mounting bracketry. Currently has some sort of hardware store hinge.
• Rear seat upper cushion is missing the catch assembly that it appears it should have per the parts listing books; P/Ns: B-192921 and B-192964. Right now the upper seat just rests against the rear of the body.

Now for the "asks":

• Can anyone confirm if the '33 Victoria and Tudor shared seat assemblies?
• Were the seats indeed the same between RHD and LHD cars, and are my seats actually RHD seats?
• What P/Ns am I missing or are the correct ones I need from the list above?
• How is the rear seat actually supposed to be mounted to the body?
• Does anyone have clear photos of how the rear seat mounts, as well as the adjustment mechanism for the driver's front seat?

[DavidG]

The reference source that you evidently do not have that answers most of your questions is '33-'34 body parts catalog. While I do not recall it being reproduced, originals of the U.S. version aren't all that rare and they show up regularly on ebay and Amazon.

That catalog confirms that the front seats of the '33 Tudor and Victoria were the same with the basic part numbers of 40-705100 for the driver's seat and 40-705150 for the passenger seat. Various suffixes were used to distinguish the different upholstery materials used. The LHD and RHD front seats were the same according to the 1933 Ford of Canada body parts catalog (for export), which is an exceedingly rare catalog.

The driver's seat hinge pin's part number in that catalog and the U.S. catalog is 40-705296, Not 40-705260, which is a roller pin part number.

Both the Canadian and U.S. catalogs have very few of the rear seat parts listed which suggests that those not listed were not available as service parts. Notwithstanding, your rear seat latch part numbers (B-192921 and B-192964) are correct. The hinges are not listed , but they would have been similar to those in your photos. Rather crude, but effective. The attached photo is of the like hinge in a '32 Victoria where the floor is quite different where the hinge attaches, but the idea is the same for both years' hinges.

[deuce lover]

Here is a pic of the drivers seat adjuster,orig dr seat and pass seat.Hope this helps, in a LHD car.Last pic is the pair upholstered and installed.The rear seat backrest is hinged at the bottom and there is sort of a clip at the top,as per David post #2. .Sorry I no longer have those pics.The last 2 pics are of an original unmolested 33 deluxe tudor found a couple yrs ago here in France Not sure if the the Vic rear seat mounts like a tudor.My pics are of a tudor..

[DavidG]

the.secret.victoria,


Judging from your photos and those that Sheldon provided, your left seat does appear to be the passenger seat from a RHD vehicle. The seats themselves may be the same per the catalogs, but that attached to the bottoms of their platforms are different for LHD and RHD vehicles.

[the.secret.victoria]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by DavidG

The reference source that you evidently do not have that answers most of your questions is '33-'34 body parts catalog. While I do not recall it being reproduced, originals of the U.S. version aren't all that rare and they show up regularly on ebay and Amazon.

I'm assuming that would be this catalog?

Originally Posted by DavidG

The driver's seat hinge pin's part number in that catalog and the U.S. catalog is 40-705296, Not 40-705260, which is a roller pin part number.

Both the Canadian and U.S. catalogs have very few of the rear seat parts listed which suggests that those not listed were not available as service parts. Notwithstanding, your rear seat latch part numbers (B-192921 and B-192964) are correct. The hinges are not listed , but they would have been similar to those in your photos. Rather crude, but effective. The attached photo is of the like hinge in a '32 Victoria where the floor is quite different where the hinge attaches, but the idea is the same for both years' hinges.

Thanks for confirmation on the part numbers and the seat cushion hinge.

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Here is a pic of the drivers seat adjuster,orig dr seat and pass seat.Hope this helps

From my memory your seats do look like mine. Do you recall where on the rear seat cushion the latches attached? I'm assuming up near the top corners.

Originally Posted by DavidG

...but that attached to the bottoms of their platforms are different for LHD and RHD vehicles.

Can you clarify what you mean? From memory the seats and mechanisms look the same as the photos above, but I'll have to go back out to the car and have a closer look and take some more photos of my seats.

[DavidG]

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Compare the brackets on the bottom side in your first photo above in #1 and the very last photo in #3 where the driver's seat has no such brackets. Those brackets are for tilting the passenger seat forward to permit easier entrance into the back seat area. In your first photo the location of those brackets are on a seat that is a passenger seat and by being on the left side of the car dictates that the seat came out of a RHD car.


Just as with the outside door locks, entrance and exiting of passenger was intended to be on the curb side of the car in that era.


I erred and forgot about the shrunk reproduction of the '33-'34 body parts catalog with the yellow and black cover. The original is a full 8 1/2" x 11" in size with a beige cover with black lettering. The reproduction is easy to forget as so much is left out of it, such as all of the commercial and truck body parts data.

[deuce lover]

The rear seat back attaches at the top center,not at the corners. In thinking more about the front seats I believe they can be switched from left to right. The pass side has 2 brackets that are riveted to the floor.In the RHD cars it was (I feel) just riveted on the left side during manufacture.The drivers seat tracks are simply bolted to the floor.Mechanisms are the same on the seats themselves LHD or RHD.

[DavidG]

Sheldon,


I agree. Given that the seats themselves have the same part numbers, LHD and RHD, it's what is attached to their bottoms that distinguishes which side they were used on.

[the.secret.victoria]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Compare the brackets on the bottom side in your first photo above in #1 and the very last photo in #3 where the driver's seat has no such brackets. Those brackets are for tilting the passenger seat forward to permit easier entrance into the back seat area. In your first photo the location of those brackets are on a seat that is a passenger seat and by being on the left side of the car dictates that the seat came out of a RHD car.

Ahh. Yes. I'm aware of the difference in bracketry that secures the cushion assembly down to the floor from side to side, with the driver seat having the slides and the passenger seat having the pivoting linkage.

It does seem the entire assembly (from floor to top of the seat back) for a given seat is the same between LHD and RHD, though.

I haven't paid close enough attention, but it doesn't seem like the tilting mechanism skews the seat back toward the center as it pivots forward - like one would find on a '50s or '60s era two-door sedan. If it does, however, that'd certainly make the LHD and RHD unique from each other.

[DavidG]

Judging from the photo below from Ford's archives, the bottom cushion does not move forward which then suggests that there is no difference between the LHD and RHD seats, only which side each seat is used on, as you suggest.

[deuce lover]

The bottom cushion does move forward as its also on a pair of tracks like the drivers seat..My former '33 tudor was exactly like that.The arm (on both sides) are attached to the forward base and works in conjunction with the curved arm on the rear.When the seat back is pushed forward the bottom cushion also moves forward. Unique to that model year

[DavidG]

Sheldon,


Thanks, while I have never owned a '33 Tudor or Victoria, I always thought that the elaborate external braces and brackets meant that the seat bottom moved, but that archives photo misled me into thinking the seat bottom did not move forward when the seat back was tilted forward. It was kind of dumb for the Ford photographer to take a photo with the two seat bottoms aligned when the idea of the photo was to show the seat as a feature of the car.

[deuce lover]

Well the drivers seat being adjustable could have been in the near furthest forward position.

[DavidG]

Exactly, thereby completely undermining the point of the photo.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Sheldon,


Thanks, while I have never owned a '33 Tudor or Victoria, I always thought that the elaborate external braces and brackets meant that the seat bottom moved, but that archives photo misled me into thinking the seat bottom did not move forward when the seat back was tilted forward. It was kind of dumb for the Ford photographer to take a photo with the two seat bottoms aligned when the idea of the photo was to show the seat as a feature of the car.

[rockfla]

So the question in the above picture (Thanks Petehoovie for the enlargement) is.....What is up with the rear carpet???

[DavidG]

Deluxe '33-'34 closed cars came equipped with carpeting in the rear compartment and a taupe-colored rubber mat in front. The standard '33-'34 closed cars had mats, front and rear.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Deluxe '33-'34 closed cars came equipped with carpeting in the rear compartment and a taupe-colored rubber mat in front. The standard '33-'34 closed cars had mats, front and rear.

David
i was wondering why it appears to have two “different” rear floor coverings?? If you look at Petehoovies picture the one on the bottom appears to match the front and the one on top is different and cut at a funny angle???

[DavidG]

The weave in the rear carpet is noticeably stronger than that molded in the front mat. Note the flat area of the perimeter of the opening for the section of mat that fits over the transmission shift lever housing. It's definitely not carpeting in front.

[rockfla]

Much later and maybe helps further, was looking last night in the DeAngelis/Francis book and ran upon it and remembered/following the post. Different seat treatment for sure!!!