Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2021, 12:16 AM   #1
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Pump Gas for a Model A

I have been running 90 octane non ethanol gas in my car but wanted to get the opinion of people on hear. I know the 87 Regular would work fine but most Model A's have some rust in the gas tank and I fear that the ethanol would attract moisture.

Also in my opinion they never should have added ethanol to gas but that's a different discussion
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 04:16 AM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model A Ron View Post
I have been running 90 octane non ethanol gas in my car but wanted to get the opinion of people on hear. I know the 87 Regular would work fine but most Model A's have some rust in the gas tank and I fear that the ethanol would attract moisture.
I would argue that your comment of "most" should likely be 'many'.

I think you are overthinking the ethanol thing. If the fuel attracts and absorbs the moisture, how does that affect the tank metal? Where the tank rusts is when the bare-metal tank walls are exposed to air. This generally happens when the tank is not full of fuel.

So answer this for us, how much moisture content does the ethanol fuel need to contain to where it alone is promoting rust?? Since MMO seems to be the magical cure, why not just depend on that to coat the tank and prevent rusting??
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-08-2021, 06:00 AM   #3
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I don't think they care what they burn, they'll burn about anything you want to put in them. I dump all my old stale stuff in and it runs just fine. I know some will argue that point and say theirs will only run good on non-ethanol, I won't ague that.

As far as the rust issue, I'm not worrying about it. Keep the tank full. Its also gotten to the point where its hard to find non-ethanol, at most stations around here now all the fuel has corn in it. There is now only one station where the 90-91 octane stuff is the real thing.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 06:51 AM   #4
jayvee34
Senior Member
 
jayvee34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: St. Augustine, Fl.
Posts: 437
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

[QUOTE=Patrick L.;2014612]I don't think they care what they burn, they'll burn about anything you want to put in them. I dump all my old stale stuff in and it runs just fine. I know some will argue that point and say theirs will only run good on non-ethanol, I won't ague that.

I agree. Back during WWII Gas was rationed, and in short supply. My uncle had
a Model A and he would use kerosene as fuel. I also remember it would not
start with the starter or crank, it had to be pushed started.
John
__________________
IN GOD WE TRUST - SEMPER FIDELIS
John
jayvee34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 07:00 AM   #5
eagle
Senior Member
 
eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle Bend, MN
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

We have the option here to buy straight gas OR ethanol blend. In my modern cars I always use blend, in lawn mowers, chainsaws, Model A, always straight gas. I fill the tank completely when I park the A for the winter, ethanol is a mess after sitting the long (yeah, we have a 6 month salty winter).
__________________
"There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."
eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 07:57 AM   #6
Gene F
Senior Member
 
Gene F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,916
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
[QUOTE=jayvee34;2014618]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
I don't think they care what they burn, they'll burn about anything you want to put in them. I dump all my old stale stuff in and it runs just fine. I know some will argue that point and say theirs will only run good on non-ethanol, I won't ague that.

I agree. Back during WWII Gas was rationed, and in short supply. My uncle had
a Model A and he would use kerosene as fuel. I also remember it would not
start with the starter or crank, it had to be pushed started.
John
Jayvee, my grandfather did the same thing.
Gene F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 09:49 AM   #7
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I would argue that your comment of "most" should likely be 'many'.

I think you are overthinking the ethanol thing. If the fuel attracts and absorbs the moisture, how does that affect the tank metal? Where the tank rusts is when the bare-metal tank walls are exposed to air. This generally happens when the tank is not full of fuel.

So answer this for us, how much moisture content does the ethanol fuel need to contain to where it alone is promoting rust?? Since MMO seems to be the magical cure, why not just depend on that to coat the tank and prevent rusting??
Brent
I know your not a fan of MMO but what a wonderful use to prevent rust . On a serious note ethanol gas does tend to go bad faster and it does attract moisture. Are you saying this is not a problem in the Model A? If your using your car regular may be just fine but I wanted the opinion of people on hear. Regardless I would never use ethanol fuel in a car that is not used much.

Ron
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 11:06 AM   #8
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model A Ron View Post
Brent
I know your not a fan of MMO but what a wonderful use to prevent rust . On a serious note ethanol gas does tend to go bad faster and it does attract moisture. Are you saying this is not a problem in the Model A? If your using your car regular may be just fine but I wanted the opinion of people on hear. Regardless I would never use ethanol fuel in a car that is not used much.

Ron
Ron, you are the engineer amongst us. As far as me not being a fan of MMO, that is definitely not a factual statement. I can show you more than one partially-full bottle of MMO in my shop. It does have many uses in my book. What I am not a fan of is claims how MMO corrects things like noisy tappets on a Model-A engine, -or how it coats the inside of a gas tank enough to prevent rust from forming.

There is something else that it misleading in your statement. Ethanol fuel does not attract water. It absorbs it. Huge difference in that the water must find its way into the gas tank first. Ethanol fuel does not "draw it in" to the tank anymore than non-ethanol fuel does. And, if the water is absorbed into the fuel in large enough quantities to cause a fuel tank to begin rusting, then at that quantity it is likely going to struggle burning inside of a Model-A engine, ...even one equipped with one of those magical Lion heads!!

The sole benefit to using a non-ethanol blend of fuel is to curb the tainting process that occurs with ethanol fuels as you mentioned above.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 11:35 AM   #9
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Ron, you are the engineer amongst us. As far as me not being a fan of MMO, that is definitely not a factual statement. I can show you more than one partially-full bottle of MMO in my shop. It does have many uses in my book. What I am not a fan of is claims how MMO corrects things like noisy tappets on a Model-A engine, -or how it coats the inside of a gas tank enough to prevent rust from forming.

There is something else that it misleading in your statement. Ethanol fuel does not attract water. It absorbs it. Huge difference in that the water must find its way into the gas tank first. Ethanol fuel does not "draw it in" to the tank anymore than non-ethanol fuel does. And, if the water is absorbed into the fuel in large enough quantities to cause a fuel tank to begin rusting, then at that quantity it is likely going to struggle burning inside of a Model-A engine, ...even one equipped with one of those magical Lion heads!!

The sole benefit to using a non-ethanol blend of fuel is to curb the tainting process that occurs with ethanol fuels as you mentioned above.

Brent
I work as an Engineer however I have a Metallurgical background and work in Quality and Supplier Development in both Automotive and Non Automotive applications. This discipline is focused on Quality, Problem Solving, and Root Cause Analysis, not Petrochemical applications.

I think we are splitting hairs when it comes to attracting/absorbing moisture when it comes to the intent of the comment however technically you are correct.

As for MMO and the Lion Head I did not bring them up, you did. This trend is about "Pump Gas for a Model A"

Regards,
Ron
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 11:41 AM   #10
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model A Ron View Post
I think we are splitting hairs... however technically you are correct.

As for MMO and the Lion Head I did not bring them up, you did.
Mmmmm, -pretty sure it WAS you that did!!


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298182

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296422

.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 11:48 AM   #11
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Mmmmm, -pretty sure it WAS you that did!!


[/COLOR]
Not on this trend. Feel free to read it from the beginning.
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 12:30 PM   #12
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,819
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Sometime in the 1980's I owned a stock 1929 pickup that I would take to the flying field to fly my RC model airplanes. The model airplanes ran methanol with 10% nitromethane and some caster oil. I ran out of gasoline on the way home and poured a gallon of the model airplane fuel into the tank on the pickup to drive the few remaining miles home. I had to open up the GAV a little, but otherwise it ran just fine. I don't remember having to adjust the spark.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 07:18 PM   #13
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I just got back from driving about 50 miles today and decided to put some Regular 87 in with ethanol. It seems I am adding 5 gallons so frequently that it will never have time to get old and its a dollar cheaper lol
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 08:17 PM   #14
wwirz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Corning NY
Posts: 243
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I ran ethanol fuels in lawn mowers, a 1961 Farmall CUB. NO matter how I conditioned the fuel it fouled the fuel system whether is was the carburetor or the plugs. I switched to non-ethanol and the fouling problems went away. I went back and forth on my Model A. I run non-ethanol fuel. I have experienced improved performance. I will run ethanol fuel if I cannot get the non-ethanol. I only put MMO in the fuel once and I did not notice what it did or what it did not do. For winter I fill up the tank with non-ethanol fuel. I took the car out of a 5 month slumber and it started right up again using non-ethanol fuel.
wwirz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 08:43 PM   #15
Model A Ron
Senior Member
 
Model A Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwirz View Post
I ran ethanol fuels in lawn mowers, a 1961 Farmall CUB. NO matter how I conditioned the fuel it fouled the fuel system whether is was the carburetor or the plugs. I switched to non-ethanol and the fouling problems went away. I went back and forth on my Model A. I run non-ethanol fuel. I have experienced improved performance. I will run ethanol fuel if I cannot get the non-ethanol. I only put MMO in the fuel once and I did not notice what it did or what it did not do. For winter I fill up the tank with non-ethanol fuel. I took the car out of a 5 month slumber and it started right up again using non-ethanol fuel.
I am going to try it now that the car is getting a lot of use. Did you see any problems with your Model A? When it cools down in late November I will go back to non ethanol for sure and maybe sooner if I have problems.

Ron
Model A Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 08:45 PM   #16
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,787
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I've seen too many carburetors taken apart with thick gooey white crap deposited in them, as a result of using Ethanol. Rubber fuel lines turned to mush, or swelled up. The stuff gets real foul real fast. Phase separation they call it.

Absorb water or attract it, the stuff is garbage no matter how you look at it. Especially in an old car.

I run nothing but straight gasoline in the old cars anymore thank you.

Ethanol is a political tool sorry it's nothing else. And I live in the Cornbelt.

By the way I saw Kerosene today at over 4 bucks a gallon
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 09:31 PM   #17
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,892
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

If they sold non-ethanol gas for something close to the crap gas price, I’d use it exclusively. But in Oregon we always have prices higher than neighboring states (currently $3.20/gal for 87 octane, almost $5 for e-free.) I’ve never experienced any adversity from e-gas, though. I just think it is an unnecessary grift for big ag.
__________________
Ray Horton, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2021, 09:55 PM   #18
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I have the absolute cure for all of the "gas" problems discussed here.
Everything I own runs on diesel except one car that runs on a 50/50% mixture of methanol and nitroethane.

Oh correction, I have a line trimmer that runs on av gas.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 09:28 AM   #19
GeneBob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Denver Area
Posts: 433
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

Brent is correct that ethanol will absorb moisture. "Attracting" moisture is a relative term in that it mixes with moisture that is already in the fuel; it does not pull it in from outside per se. Any contact with ambient air will have some humidity in it but the alcohol is not pulling moisture in to your tank.
There is a product in your car parts store that is sold to remove water from your fuel system (Heet is one brand) and it is basically alcohol.
GeneBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2021, 10:34 AM   #20
Jerry in Shasta
Senior Member
 
Jerry in Shasta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: (Old)Shasta (Redding) CA
Posts: 385
Default Re: Pump Gas for a Model A

I buy non alcohol gas for $7.99 a gallon, here in California, and there is only one place in town that has it.. Of course I only use it my chain saw and other power tools. Can't afford it for the Model A.
__________________
Connoisseur of Rust
Jerry in Shasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 PM.