Oil Pressure

[3739ford]

I'm close to cranking my rebuilt 8ba for first time. I poured a little gas into the carburetor and turned the engine over and it fired on couple of cylinders. I did this couple of times trying to get the fuel up to the fuel pump and noticed each time the needle has never moved on the oil pressure gage. I poured a quart of oil down into the oil pump and galley before turning the engine over. How soon should I see the needle move.

[petehoovie]

Did you pack the oil pump with Vaseline?....

"Don't ever just install a new oil pump right out of the box. There are two easy methods of insuring the oil pump will create the seal needed to pull oil in on initial start up. The first method is to pack the oil pump full of Vaseline. Vaseline will create the seal needed for vacuum to draw in oil. The Vaseline will then be quickly dissolved into the oil. The second method is to use engine assembly lube and lube all the moving parts. The goal here is to sufficiently coat all moving parts so when the pump spins for the first time vacuum is created to draw the oil into the pump and then push it through the system."....

[Ol' Ron]

Good move. However, if you forgot, just pore alittkr trams oil into the pump.

[3739ford]

It was the Ford pump that was in the engine. I cleaned it up and reinstalled. No, I did not use anything on the pump. What are my options now that the engine is together?

[3739ford]

Just remove the oil line going to the filter and pour a little trans oil in?

[alanwoodieman]

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do NOT try to fire up a fresh rebuild without the following--pull the plugs out and leave out, squirt a little oil into the cylinders, attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge and crank over engine until it shows oil pressure. I have done this with a 12 volt battery but a good charged 6 volt should have no problem

[alanwoodieman]

do you have the required restrictor in the oil filter line??

[40cpe]

I would take the spark plugs out and spin the engine on 12v to minimize the load on the bearings until you get oil pressure. It took my engine about 30-40 seconds of spinning, but I packed my pump with vaseline. I remember another post where someone couldn't get pressure and was able to get pressure after pouring oil down into the pump.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by 3739ford

I'm close to cranking my rebuilt 8ba for first time. I poured a little gas into the carburetor and turned the engine over and it fired on couple of cylinders. I did this couple of times trying to get the fuel up to the fuel pump and noticed each time the needle has never moved on the oil pressure gage. I poured a quart of oil down into the oil pump and galley before turning the engine over. How soon should I see the needle move.

The BEST method to get oil entirely thru a "newly-built" unit, before any "firing" is even attempted, is by using a "pressure-fed" lube tank as pictured below.

You can get all the oil in with this method!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Am going to try to keep my posts a bit short, still in the middle of a major health issue, half-way out of the woods. Will try to resume working and moving some parts I've gotten asked about from members, mainly the bronze-lined guides. "Kiwi" Tony this is for you and some other members!

[tubman]

I had a'51 Merc engine that had been sitting a loooong time (at least 20 years). I put it on my test stand and checked the compression and all cylinders were over 100. I drained the oil in it, and refilled it and replaced the filter. I then spun it with no plugs. It seemed like forever, and no oil pressure. I'll bet I spun it over 10 times for 10 seconds each time; no oil pressure. I gave up and went home to bed. The next morning, I thought I'd try it one more time. This time, it showed oil pressure. I put the rest of it together, started it, and it had good oil pressure. It still has after 5 years in my car.

My take is that it may take a while, but do it with the starter, not by running it.

[3739ford]

I did remove the plugs and spin it over several times after getting my remote switch, wiring, and gages installed. I'm charging the battery tonight as it was not at full charge when I removed it from the GPW. Will try again tomorrow. I used a lot of lube when I put the engine together.

[mfirth]

Keeping the original pump is a good thing....some new ones ain't good. Follow the GR8 advise here & it'll be fine.

[19Fordy]

Dear GOSFAST; Sorry to hear you're not firing ion all 8 cylinders.
However, being a top notch engine builder, you'll be tuned up and "on the road" again really soon.. Get well and "All the Best".

[3739ford]

Spun it over a bunch today and still the needle does not move. Still trying to use starter with plugs out.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 3739ford

Spun it over a bunch today and still the needle does not move. Still trying to use starter with plugs out.

Are you sure you installed the galley plug behind the cam gear?

[3739ford]

Yes, the machine shop had to drill the old one out and installed a new one.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

The BEST method to get oil entirely thru a "newly-built" unit, before any "firing" is even attempted, is by using a "pressure-fed" lube tank as pictured below.

You can get all the oil in with this method!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Am going to try to keep my posts a bit short, still in the middle of a major health issue, half-way out of the woods. Will try to resume working and moving some parts I've gotten asked about from members, mainly the bronze-lined guides. "Kiwi" Tony this is for you and some other members!

A pressure tank is the only method I've used on ANY engine rebuild.
That, along WITH packing the pump with Vasoline®

[3739ford]

I would like to pick up something local, but not finding anything at the moment. I can order something and have delivered. I may try a pump up sprayer and see what results I get.

[Pete]

A hand tire pump and a coffee can is all you need to brew up a pressure oiler, assuming you have a soldering iron and some copper tubing.

[flatheadmurre]

With the oil pressure sender out turning it over do you have flow coming up there ??
If not you have a gear missing...
If you have flow but no pressure...either plug missing or pressure relief spring in pump broken is high on the list of suspects.

[Lawrie]

One way if you have no gear is to remove the verticle gallery plug next to the oil pressure sender, put a funnel in there and fill it with oil
Then turn the engine over BACKWARDS, this will suck the oil into the pump.
Or get a hand vacum pump and fit to the same spot,pull the vacum and turn the engine over.
But best way is to pressurise the oil system as said.
Lawrie

[flatheadmurre]

Step by step find out if there is a piece missing...
First is the pump actually pumping ?
If so next is to find out where the oilflow is escaping.
Someone forgot the pump idler gear you have no flow at all...
Or someone hot-tanked the block with the gear in place...no bushing left in there now...
Next is the usual suspects...plugs...relief springs...
But if the pump isn´t giving you a mess pumping out the oilpressure sender hole when open...no need to hunt down a leak...or use pressure oiling...

[3739ford]

I have a starting point now as I removed the oil line from engine block up to filter and turned the motor over and nothing comes out. I will drop the oil pan first and start with the oil pump first.

Are they a way to test the oil pump if I remove it from the block?

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by 3739ford

I have a starting point now as I removed the oil line from engine block up to filter and turned the motor over and nothing comes out. I will drop the oil pan first and start with the oil pump first.

Are they a way to test the oil pump if I remove it from the block?

When the pan is off...take a look down the hole where the pump was mounted...can you see the idler gear in there...if nothing but a round hole down there...flywheel has to come off to give you access to the cover and idler gear.

Check that oilpickup gasket to pump is sealing...otherwise it will suck just air trying to prime.

With pump in hand remove plug on side check spring and relief valve.
Check drive gear for axial play.
If that looks good take bottom of pump off check shaft with drive gear for radial play.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by 3739ford

I have a starting point now as I removed the oil line from engine block up to filter and turned the motor over and nothing comes out. I will drop the oil pan first and start with the oil pump first.

Are they a way to test the oil pump if I remove it from the block?

Search back a few years ago, I did a long post on how to make an oil
pump tester out of plastic tubing. The plastic is a tight fit on oil
pump. You remove the drive gear and turn the pump with a 1/2" electric
drill. Run the drill in the same direction as drilling a hole. Put a flexible
plastic hose from the pump output to a 100lb oil gauge and another hose
after the gauge. Put the pick up screen of the pump down in a pan of oil.
Turn the drill on, when oil starts to flow bend the hose after the gauge.
the tighter the bend it the higher the pressure. Let the oil go back into the
pan. You should see over a 100 lbs. The pump may have an internal
pressure by pass valve that is leaking. The gears could also be warn
or the gasket on the plate on the bottom leaking. G.M.

[3739ford]

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Removed the oil pump this morning and verified with flashlight by looking up through passage and seeing the gear was in place. Started taking the pump apart and the gasket between the oil pickup and oil pump as suspect and saturated with oil. The bypass bolt was not tight at all just finger tight.

I have attached couple pictures of the gears which show some wear. This is the first oil pump gears I have every seen and do not know if they are good to reuse or worn out. I have a new wider and thicker gasket for the oil pickup; would you put back together and fill the gear chamber with vaseline as Petehoovie suggested and give it a try?

[flatheadmurre]

Try and move the gear that is in place in the body now sideways....does it move...you need new bushings.
That bottom plate tells me the pump has some miles on it.

[3739ford]

flatheadmurre, the shaft has no play in it at all.

[flatheadmurre]

Then the gearpart should be good to go.
If the axial and radial play is minimal they usually function very well.
Put it back togetter pack it with grease make sure all gaskets seal well.
But then the question is why it didn´t pump any oil...even a worn pump usually pumps oil out the open oilsender hole...
Maybe time for a little more investigating to check the front plug is really there...

[3739ford]

I found an old post by GM where he made out of PCV pipe a way to test an oil pump. Thought I would look around the farm to see if I had the right size and give it a try.

[Ronnieroadster]

You mentioned you can see the gear up in the oil pump hole. Looking at the gear can you see the amount of the gear showing to be at least 1/2 inch or more? Reason i ask the gear can be installed backwards on the shaft when its backwards you will still see some of the gear {less than 1/3] in the pump hole. However this gear will strip its teeth quickly if its instilled backwards. Another thing I would suggest is check to see if the oil drive gear turns when the engine is being rotated. I have seen on a NOS Ford Flathead cam installed in a fresh engine where the oil drive gear on the cam was loose this then caused the oil pump drive idler gear to not rotate.
Testing the oil pump you will find it takes a lot of torque to pump oil i test my pumps using my Bridgeport milling machine its amazing how much power is needed to turn the pump I spin the pumps to 3000 RPM during the test. You will also find its a very messy job since oil will come out during the spin test on the shaft end anything in the area will not rust for some time with the oil spray. I first tried a cheap import drill press that would not work at all.
Ronnieroadster

[alanwoodieman]

you can put the pump in a bucket of oil and spin by hand, if the pump is going to work oil will come out of the slot in the side of the pump--pressure is just a function of the speed at which the pump is running/moving oil because you do not have a pressure relief valve

[3739ford]

I did just that after putting back together and turned it a few times and out come the oil. I took it back apart and packed the gears with Vaseline and put back together. I replaced the gasket at the pickup and pump, then tightened the bypass nut up. Just got through reinstalling it and after a couple revolutions I had oil coming out of the block. Put the oil line back on to the filter and turned it over some more and started getting oil pressure on the gage.

Thanks everyone, tomorrow if I get a chance I will put the plugs in and give her a little gas and see what comes of it.

Yeah!!

[flatjack9]

Good news.