The Ford Barn

JonC · 09-20-2015, 03:59 PM

Why am I having so many problems with my starter. I am running 12V. I connected the ground wire to the starter button correctly but using a 6V starter and 6V reproduction solenoid after a couple of starts the solenoid stuck while the engine started and I frantically taped the solenoid to stop the starter turning. This was on inital start up. Then every two or three times the same thing happened.

I changed solenoids (another repro) same thing happens, not as often but enough so I was afraid to start it with the button and opened the hood and pushed the button on the solenoid.

I decided (why? ) things would be better with a new 12V starter and 12V solenoid but found out the new solenoid needed a positive wire instead of making ground to work. So back in with the 6V solenoid. worked great all day yesterday put 100 miles on the truck, happy as a clam, this moring it stuck and by the time I hit it, I ruined the new style bendix on the 12V starter. I had a new ring gear on the flywheel put on before I put it all together. What is going on? anybody have a similar problem? and how do I go about solving this? Thanks for any help.

Lawson Cox · 09-20-2015, 04:14 PM

Go back to 6V, clean all connections well, use heavy cables and live happily ever after. 6V worked well for 80 years. Why did you think changing to 12V would improve things?

JonC · 09-20-2015, 04:27 PM

Mainly because of the headlights, I would change back now Lawson but am not sure that would fix my problem.

johndee138 · 09-20-2015, 04:34 PM

I changed over to 12v for better lights as well and the 6v starter hit so hard that I was afraid it would crap out at the most inopportune time so I picked up a 12v mini race starter off of fleabay and am VERY happy with it.

adileo · 09-20-2015, 04:45 PM

I had that happen to me. I over tighted the nuts on the solinoid and when I hit the starter button the solinoid would not dis-engage the starter. Backed off the nut a wee bit and it worked properly.

scooder · 09-20-2015, 04:47 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

You can use the 12 volt solenoid. You do this by using the starter button to earth a relay that then shoots the live feed to the 12 volt solenoid. Or you can use the later two wire starter button to shoot the 12 volts to the solenoid.
Lawson did bring up a valid point though, if your need for 12 volts is brighter head lights, good clean connections and grounds is the real fix for this. You can also get much brighter bulbs for 6 volts other than the standard fit bulbs, halogen and such. Plenty on here are running 6 volts and are happy.
Martin.

Lawson Cox · 09-20-2015, 05:04 PM

I am real happy with my 6V system. I have converted to sealed beams which are far better than the old bub/reflector setup. I am using 40 big truck headlight rims and the uninitiated can not tell they are not stock.

George/Maine · 09-20-2015, 05:26 PM

I would guess your bottom is sticking as said you would be better wit 12volt sel and 2 wire bottom/ a key start

Bob C · 09-20-2015, 06:03 PM

A Standard SS-587 or Napa ST56 should work with your original start button.
They are circuit #2 insulated base 12V solenoids.

Bob

JonC · 09-20-2015, 06:21 PM

As far as the 6 V system, I used it on my 36 and my model A and have no problems with it, it worked well and still does in the A. On the 40 I have a much more stout motor, and wanted to be able to use a stero at some point so I went 12V with an Optimum battery. I like the idea of a relay with the stock button, and maybe i am distorting the case on the soleniod, Adielo was your issue with the mounting bolts or the nuts for the cables? I would rather use the metal can soleniod since they look correct but I just put a new bendix (improved old style) and am afraid it will stick again. Was there a differance in flywheels or tooth count that would get me in trouble?

JonC · 09-20-2015, 06:23 PM

Bob C do the soleniods you mention need a positive wire to operate or are you saying the ground wire as per the six volt system will work?

Bob C · 09-20-2015, 06:59 PM

They need a ground to energize them, see circuit #2 in the picture.

Bob

George/Maine · 09-20-2015, 07:02 PM

The 6 volt selinode coil inside is for 6 volts when putting 12 volts you double the current causing it to heat up and stick use a 12 volt selinode

JonC · 09-20-2015, 08:06 PM

Thanks Bob C I'll get one as soon as I can.

scooder · 09-21-2015, 01:17 PM

Bobc, thanks for that info, learnt something.
Martin.

flatheadmurre · 09-21-2015, 01:37 PM

A solenoid as in circuit 4 must be available at any store.
Then just connect one of the coil post to the battery post and youre good to go.

JSeery · 09-21-2015, 01:47 PM

The Cole Hersee 12V Insulated Intermittent Duty SPST Solenoid 24046 features a copper contacts and terminals. ~$22.00

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS:

Part No.: 24046
Description: Intermittent Duty Solenoid
Special Applications: Universal
Insulated/Grounded: Insulated
NO/NC: normally open
Circuitry: SPST
Contacts: copper
Housing: phenolic
Voltage rating: 12V
Terminals: copper; 10-32 thread and 5/16"-24 thread. Hex nuts and lock washers included
Maximum Current: make 750A
Maximum Current: break 100A
Intermittent Time: 10 sec. On - 20 min. Off
Bracket: Straight
Bracket Mounting: Holes 9/32" x 11/15", 2-1/8" on center
Breather Hole: no
UL Marine & CE ISO 8846 Marine: Not listed

Bob C · 09-21-2015, 03:05 PM

Where did you find it for $22, that's a really good price.

Bob

JonC · 09-21-2015, 03:08 PM

JSeery, thanks again, One of these days I am going to have to buy you a beer. Jon

Walt Dupont--Me. · 09-21-2015, 03:32 PM

I learned that years ago, those 6 volt selinode won't stand 12 for long, they will stick and you'll go ape until you get it unstuck, use a 12 sel. and a 2 post push button, nothing to it. Walt

JonC · 09-21-2015, 05:18 PM

Thanks for all the help, I just got my new USA made bendix old style improved with a spring and put it on my new 12V starter, I ordered a 12V solenoid actually two, a NAPA unit that will be here tomorrow and a metal case 12V Cole Hersee 12V Insulated Intermittent Duty SPST Solenoid 24046. that should arrive in a week or so. now I would like to find an orginal starter button, the repro one I got from Mac's works on and off and while I am sure it is the ground of the switch I would just prefer an original if I can find one, if not here well Hersey is in a couple of weeks. Thanks every one.

09-20-2015, 03:59 PM	#1
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Help starter issues Why am I having so many problems with my starter. I am running 12V. I connected the ground wire to the starter button correctly but using a 6V starter and 6V reproduction solenoid after a couple of starts the solenoid stuck while the engine started and I frantically taped the solenoid to stop the starter turning. This was on inital start up. Then every two or three times the same thing happened. I changed solenoids (another repro) same thing happens, not as often but enough so I was afraid to start it with the button and opened the hood and pushed the button on the solenoid. I decided (why? ) things would be better with a new 12V starter and 12V solenoid but found out the new solenoid needed a positive wire instead of making ground to work. So back in with the 6V solenoid. worked great all day yesterday put 100 miles on the truck, happy as a clam, this moring it stuck and by the time I hit it, I ruined the new style bendix on the 12V starter. I had a new ring gear on the flywheel put on before I put it all together. What is going on? anybody have a similar problem? and how do I go about solving this? Thanks for any help.

09-20-2015, 04:27 PM	#3
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues Mainly because of the headlights, I would change back now Lawson but am not sure that would fix my problem.

09-20-2015, 04:34 PM	#4
johndee138 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 505	Re: Help starter issues I changed over to 12v for better lights as well and the 6v starter hit so hard that I was afraid it would crap out at the most inopportune time so I picked up a 12v mini race starter off of fleabay and am VERY happy with it. Last edited by johndee138; 09-20-2015 at 04:34 PM. Reason: clarity

09-20-2015, 04:45 PM	#5
adileo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,772	Re: Help starter issues I had that happen to me. I over tighted the nuts on the solinoid and when I hit the starter button the solinoid would not dis-engage the starter. Backed off the nut a wee bit and it worked properly.

09-20-2015, 04:47 PM	#6
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Help starter issues Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You can use the 12 volt solenoid. You do this by using the starter button to earth a relay that then shoots the live feed to the 12 volt solenoid. Or you can use the later two wire starter button to shoot the 12 volts to the solenoid. Lawson did bring up a valid point though, if your need for 12 volts is brighter head lights, good clean connections and grounds is the real fix for this. You can also get much brighter bulbs for 6 volts other than the standard fit bulbs, halogen and such. Plenty on here are running 6 volts and are happy. Martin.

09-20-2015, 04:14 PM	#2
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Help starter issues Go back to 6V, clean all connections well, use heavy cables and live happily ever after. 6V worked well for 80 years. Why did you think changing to 12V would improve things? __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

09-20-2015, 05:04 PM	#7
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Help starter issues I am real happy with my 6V system. I have converted to sealed beams which are far better than the old bub/reflector setup. I am using 40 big truck headlight rims and the uninitiated can not tell they are not stock. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

09-20-2015, 05:26 PM	#8
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Help starter issues I would guess your bottom is sticking as said you would be better wit 12volt sel and 2 wire bottom/ a key start

09-20-2015, 06:03 PM	#9
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: Help starter issues A Standard SS-587 or Napa ST56 should work with your original start button. They are circuit #2 insulated base 12V solenoids. Bob

09-20-2015, 06:21 PM	#10
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues As far as the 6 V system, I used it on my 36 and my model A and have no problems with it, it worked well and still does in the A. On the 40 I have a much more stout motor, and wanted to be able to use a stero at some point so I went 12V with an Optimum battery. I like the idea of a relay with the stock button, and maybe i am distorting the case on the soleniod, Adielo was your issue with the mounting bolts or the nuts for the cables? I would rather use the metal can soleniod since they look correct but I just put a new bendix (improved old style) and am afraid it will stick again. Was there a differance in flywheels or tooth count that would get me in trouble?

09-20-2015, 06:23 PM	#11
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues Bob C do the soleniods you mention need a positive wire to operate or are you saying the ground wire as per the six volt system will work?

09-20-2015, 07:02 PM	#13
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Help starter issues The 6 volt selinode coil inside is for 6 volts when putting 12 volts you double the current causing it to heat up and stick use a 12 volt selinode

09-20-2015, 08:06 PM	#14
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues Thanks Bob C I'll get one as soon as I can.

09-21-2015, 01:17 PM	#15
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Help starter issues Bobc, thanks for that info, learnt something. Martin.

09-21-2015, 01:37 PM	#16
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Help starter issues A solenoid as in circuit 4 must be available at any store. Then just connect one of the coil post to the battery post and youre good to go.

09-21-2015, 03:05 PM	#18
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: Help starter issues Where did you find it for $22, that's a really good price. Bob

09-21-2015, 03:08 PM	#19
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues JSeery, thanks again, One of these days I am going to have to buy you a beer. Jon

09-21-2015, 03:32 PM	#20
Walt Dupont--Me. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gardiner Me. Posts: 4,200	Re: Help starter issues I learned that years ago, those 6 volt selinode won't stand 12 for long, they will stick and you'll go ape until you get it unstuck, use a 12 sel. and a 2 post push button, nothing to it. Walt

09-21-2015, 05:18 PM	#21
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: Help starter issues Thanks for all the help, I just got my new USA made bendix old style improved with a spring and put it on my new 12V starter, I ordered a 12V solenoid actually two, a NAPA unit that will be here tomorrow and a metal case 12V Cole Hersee 12V Insulated Intermittent Duty SPST Solenoid 24046. that should arrive in a week or so. now I would like to find an orginal starter button, the repro one I got from Mac's works on and off and while I am sure it is the ground of the switch I would just prefer an original if I can find one, if not here well Hersey is in a couple of weeks. Thanks every one.