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Old 08-19-2021, 12:08 AM   #1
Shadetreemx
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Default Poor braking

Just installed new front and rear brakes purchased from Randy Gross on my 1930 Model A Tudor. Made the brake board tool per Les Andrews. Also watched Paul Shinn's video on YouTube. Went for a test drive and braking was poor. Used emergency brake at stop signs. Placed car on four jack stands. Turned wedge adjusters all the way out. Removed all four brake rods and they are 51 7/16" eye to eye center. Cross-over shaft ends in vertical position. Front brake arms approximately 15 degrees forward. Not sure how to measure 15 degrees accurately.Removed e-brake rods to prevent interference. Turned adjusters in until shoes began to drag, then backed off two clicks. Pulled rear rods to remove play and adjusted clevis to position it on crossover shaft. Pulled front rods until arm at 15 degrees then adjusted clevis to place pin in clevis. My wife helped with the notched board. Still poor braking! Could the problem be with the brake pedal to cross-shaft rod? Do I shorten it or lengthen it? Any advice will be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
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Old 08-19-2021, 04:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: Poor braking

Hi,


what you have done sounds right.



I would check the friction surface of the brake shoes. Remove the drums, coat the brake lining shoes with a piece of chalk, drive and brake a short distance and then check whether the drums are surface contact with des brakes.
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:16 AM   #3
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: Poor braking

Set the rods to the factory length 51.5" and adjust each wheel brake using the wedge so there is an equal amount of drag on each wheel.Do not back-off the adjustment. Put the notched board in your fireplace. Done!

If you still want even better brakes, install Flathead Ted's Brake Centering Kit.
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:54 AM   #4
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Poor braking

Did you sand the shoes to fit the drums ?
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Old 08-19-2021, 07:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Poor braking

Check the following. Do not assume that the brakes are accurate as shipped.

1. Check to see if the arch of the brake shoes fit the drums. The shoes are set to individual drums so don't mix them up.

2. Check that everything is assembled correctly. Likely they are but just check.

3. Check that the shoes are concentric to the drums. Set the adjusters so that the shoes just slightly drag to check the concentricity. Adjust by filing the tracks. Consult the Red Book for details.

4. It seems like you have adjusted the length of the rods correctly. The 15 degrees does not have to be exact.

5. Throw the stick in the fireplace and adjust each brake by setting the adjusters to just drag and back off one click. Go for a test drive. If it pulls back off the front brake on that side one click and try again.

6. If everything is working well you should be able to stop in a little over 20 feet at 20 mph.

7. Consider installing the FHT kit.
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Old 08-19-2021, 07:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Poor braking

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I’d call Randy. I did a couple of times after installing the brakes he did for me. He is an absolute pleasure to deal with.
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Old 08-19-2021, 10:12 AM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Poor braking

So are you still using the same brake shoes that you had prior to installing new drums? If so, does it have a woven or a hard lining material?

Did you check the shoes for being centered?
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Old 08-19-2021, 10:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Poor braking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
Set the rods to the factory length 51.5" and adjust each wheel brake using the wedge so there is an equal amount of drag on each wheel.Do not back-off the adjustment. Put the notched board in your fireplace. Done!

If you still want even better brakes, install Flathead Ted's Brake Centering Kit.
Haha, Good one Bob. I totally agree...
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Old 08-19-2021, 10:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Poor braking

Back in the day do we think that our local garage or Ford Dealer went through all this effort to put new brakes on a car?
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Poor braking

I don’t think you mentioned the tracks. What is their condition?
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Poor braking

A pencil point is 15 degrees. Just project it onto a piece of cardboard with a light and cut to the shadow. Use the cardboard as a template. You don't need pinpoint accuracy here. If it 16 degrees or 14 degrees it will not matter. The 15 is just a number to shoot for. It gives the maximum power in the motion of the stroke.
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Old 08-19-2021, 11:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: Poor braking

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Originally Posted by BTERRY29 View Post
I’d call Randy. I did a couple of times after installing the brakes he did for me. He is an absolute pleasure to deal with.
Exactly. You stated you purchased new brakes from Randy Gross. How much did you "get", new drums, shoes, complete backing plates?
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Old 08-19-2021, 01:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Poor braking

After adjusting the shoes the rods get adjusted so you can just get the pins in, if the front wedge, pushrod or actuating lever assemble is worn so the levers do not lean foreword after slack is removed you need to use pill shims or weld up the pushrods
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Poor braking

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Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Back in the day do we think that our local garage or Ford Dealer went through all this effort to put new brakes on a car?
that's a darn good question. Likely their access to factory-spec new drums and backing plates was an advantage we lack.
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Poor braking

You'll also need to drive a car a bit to seat in the shoes. Maybe 15-20 miles in short runs.
I like to set my brakes up with the pedal 3" from the floor. take the slack out of the brake rods and the shoes tightened up. The car has to be up on stands. Release the brake holder when your adjusting the rods. When everything is locked up equally with the tool back in place. Then give it a test drive. With the pedal released the wheels should rotate freely. I got this from a Model A club in Ohio I think. If you send me your e-mail I can send you a copy of the article. JP
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Old 08-19-2021, 05:38 PM   #16
Shadetreemx
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Default Re: Poor braking

Yes! They came from Randy Gross all mounted to the backing plate and the shoes were arched to the drum.
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Old 08-19-2021, 10:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Poor braking

Read and re-read what Kurt in NJ said. The 15 degrees forward needs to be when all the slack is gone pushing the front brake levers rearward. If there is still slack in the lever at 15 degrees, the front brakes will not activate correctly. Also, there seems to be some misinformation about the length of the rods. The reason there is an adjustable clevis at the end of each rod is so (once again) any slack in any of the four brakes assemblies can be fine tuned out. So, the 51.5 or 51 7/16 measurement is a starting frame of reference rather than a final dimension from eye to eye. Once the slack is gone from each front or rear brake actuating levers, each rod is adjusted to meet that lever. This way, as soon as the brake pedal is applied, all four pairs of brake shoes begin to activate. When properly adjusted, I would doubt that any 2 out of 4 service brake rods will have the same exact overall length. If Ford meant for all the rods to have the same length, there would have been no adjustable end on the rod. That would have been deemed an extra process at extra cost at the factory.
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Old 08-20-2021, 11:14 AM   #18
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Default Re: Poor braking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadetreemx View Post
Front brake arms approximately 15 degrees forward. Not sure how to measure 15 degrees accurately.

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Old 08-20-2021, 11:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Poor braking

Post 17. Yep!
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Old 08-21-2021, 11:17 AM   #20
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Default Re: Poor braking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Back in the day do we think that our local garage or Ford Dealer went through all this effort to put new brakes on a car?




Thats right ! But, then they didn't have to contend with the issues we have today. Today we deal with wear, lots of it.

These brakes are simple and it really doesn't take too long to get them right. Mechanics of the day were used to these. There is just a natural progression to work through.
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