The Ford Barn

Rock Hornbuckle · 05-30-2013, 01:28 PM

Anybody know if Ford put a lead additive in the Model A paint? Or, what year lead started to be added?

marc hildebrant · 05-30-2013, 04:59 PM

Lead in paint was due to white lead as a pigment (white color).

Marc

Rock Hornbuckle · 05-30-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Lead in paint was due to white lead as a pigment (white color).

Marc

What about the Red Lead paint that was on my '68 F250 back in the day? I had it lab tested, and it had lead in it. I can remember being able to buy red lead paint primer. I know it has been banned from future use, just wondering what year Ford started to use it.

mhsprecher · 05-30-2013, 08:15 PM

Lead has been added to paint for centuries. I suspect it was in all automotive paints.

QGolden · 05-30-2013, 09:03 PM

As I understand it ,Lead was used as a pigment to color paint. Lead was also used to speed up drying time for paint. It also increased the durability of paint and helped it resist moisture.

springerpete · 05-31-2013, 07:31 AM

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Lead, as the element Pb, has several different valence (charge) possibilities. All are + as metals. It comes in +4, +3 and +2. Red lead can be either +4 or +2. White lead is not as simple as it is a combination of lead carbonate and lead hydroxide. Carbonates and hydroxides as solids are mostly white. It is a good idea to stay away from any Pb compound form. Lead metal, like chimney flashing is pretty safe.

theHIGHLANDER · 05-31-2013, 07:36 AM

I'm curious as to why the topic/question? There's a multitude of ways to get an "authentic" look with the new paint products, you just have to be creative and have a basic understanding of the material line. Now if the new judging standards include a chemical analysis of the material used, I QUIT!!

dave in australia · 05-31-2013, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

I'm curious as to why the topic/question? There's a multitude of ways to get an "authentic" look with the new paint products, you just have to be creative and have a basic understanding of the material line. Now if the new judging standards include a chemical analysis of the material used, I QUIT!!

Maybe the original poster is thinking of stripping some original paint and was curious of the makeup of the paint to take appropriate precautions to protect their own health.

Rock Hornbuckle · 05-31-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave in australia

Maybe the original poster is thinking of stripping some original paint and was curious of the makeup of the paint to take appropriate precautions to protect their own health.

I have googled LEAD PAINT, and found all the PROPERTIES and USES of lead in paint. I have an OSHA 40 card and have been a safety officer on multi-million dollar projects. I have all the OSHA manuals and MSDS on lead.

Let me restate for the third time. I am looking for WHEN (WHAT YEAR)FORD started using lead paint.

Surely some of you Ford historians may know this.

Tinbasher · 05-31-2013, 03:26 PM

I would say 1903. Since lead was the base for Red lead primer. Lead was also used in enamels as a drying agent. So A fenders had lead in them also as they were dipped in black enamel. Most T's were lacquer and brushed until 1925 and then sprayed from then on. Thanks Devilbiss.

The Old Tinbasher

Rock Hornbuckle · 05-31-2013, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinbasher

I would say 1903. Since lead was the base for Red lead primer. Lead was also used in enamels as a drying agent. So A fenders had lead in them also as they were dipped in black enamel. Most T's were lacquer and brushed until 1925 and then sprayed from then on. Thanks Devilbiss.

The Old Tinbasher

Thanks, very much appreciated.
I thank you and the United States Marine Corps thanks you!

spdway1 · 05-31-2013, 06:46 PM

Meatball Here (Dog)

PS> Buster T, don't eat the chips!

theHIGHLANDER · 06-07-2013, 06:37 AM

I'm still curious as to the context of the question. I get "when". In today's vernacular I guess I'm askin "whasup?" It's also true what was posted earlier, industry wide from the beginning until the late 70s when it was reduced, then more and more product lines and variants removed it near completely by around 90-91. Today they use other trace metals but for the most part the lead is gone. From a finisher's view and a handling observation, one bad effect of removing lead from lacquers was how it changed the drying time and hardness of pastel opaque colors. Yellows, creams, pastel blues, all would get soft all over again when heat was applied, even after a 30 day air dry. 90days + before anything resembling a hard finish could be recognized. My last pastel lacquer application was in early 92. A pastel blue wouldn't dry hard enough for sanding/polishing after a 30 day drying period, even while sitting sanded (open) to allow solvents to completely purge. Ended up stripping and going with a urethane.

Jim Mason · 06-07-2013, 07:17 AM

I have the M sheets on a couple of the ford paints and the all call of 'siccatives' (dryers). In the late t era and on it was common to use heavy metal salts as siccatives. Lead, cobalt and others were common.

05-30-2013, 01:28 PM	#1
Rock Hornbuckle Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Noxon Montana Posts: 532	Lead additive in paint Anybody know if Ford put a lead additive in the Model A paint? Or, what year lead started to be added? __________________ '31 Fordor Deluxe 2W Briggs 170-B / blackwalls '41 Fordor Deluxe / 2-duece flattie '66 1/2 Dodge Charger '14 100th Anniversary Challenger Limited Edition. Semper Fidelis

05-30-2013, 04:59 PM	#2
marc hildebrant Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 1,128	Re: Lead additive in paint Lead in paint was due to white lead as a pigment (white color). Marc

05-30-2013, 08:15 PM	#4
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Lead additive in paint Lead has been added to paint for centuries. I suspect it was in all automotive paints.

05-30-2013, 09:03 PM	#5
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Lead additive in paint As I understand it ,Lead was used as a pigment to color paint. Lead was also used to speed up drying time for paint. It also increased the durability of paint and helped it resist moisture. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

05-31-2013, 07:31 AM	#6
springerpete Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central Maine Posts: 644	Re: Lead additive in paint Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Lead, as the element Pb, has several different valence (charge) possibilities. All are + as metals. It comes in +4, +3 and +2. Red lead can be either +4 or +2. White lead is not as simple as it is a combination of lead carbonate and lead hydroxide. Carbonates and hydroxides as solids are mostly white. It is a good idea to stay away from any Pb compound form. Lead metal, like chimney flashing is pretty safe.

05-31-2013, 07:36 AM	#7
theHIGHLANDER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 492	Re: Lead additive in paint I'm curious as to why the topic/question? There's a multitude of ways to get an "authentic" look with the new paint products, you just have to be creative and have a basic understanding of the material line. Now if the new judging standards include a chemical analysis of the material used, I QUIT!!

05-31-2013, 03:26 PM	#10
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,174	Re: Lead additive in paint I would say 1903. Since lead was the base for Red lead primer. Lead was also used in enamels as a drying agent. So A fenders had lead in them also as they were dipped in black enamel. Most T's were lacquer and brushed until 1925 and then sprayed from then on. Thanks Devilbiss. The Old Tinbasher

06-07-2013, 06:37 AM	#13
theHIGHLANDER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 492	Re: Lead additive in paint I'm still curious as to the context of the question. I get "when". In today's vernacular I guess I'm askin "whasup?" It's also true what was posted earlier, industry wide from the beginning until the late 70s when it was reduced, then more and more product lines and variants removed it near completely by around 90-91. Today they use other trace metals but for the most part the lead is gone. From a finisher's view and a handling observation, one bad effect of removing lead from lacquers was how it changed the drying time and hardness of pastel opaque colors. Yellows, creams, pastel blues, all would get soft all over again when heat was applied, even after a 30 day air dry. 90days + before anything resembling a hard finish could be recognized. My last pastel lacquer application was in early 92. A pastel blue wouldn't dry hard enough for sanding/polishing after a 30 day drying period, even while sitting sanded (open) to allow solvents to completely purge. Ended up stripping and going with a urethane.

06-07-2013, 07:17 AM	#14
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 914	Re: Lead additive in paint I have the M sheets on a couple of the ford paints and the all call of 'siccatives' (dryers). In the late t era and on it was common to use heavy metal salts as siccatives. Lead, cobalt and others were common. __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.