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Old 07-13-2020, 05:07 PM   #21
Pete
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a brand new set of off shore made hollow lifters in the shop now for refacing. This customer does this routinely. They come TAPERED, NOT radiused. That means they are cone shaped. NOT spherical like a ball. He just does not trust the original surface finish.

And yes the early Isky lifters were spherical. He soon found that didn't work though. The later ones were tapered.
The spherical ones would trap no oil film because the contact area was too small. That also resulted in extremely high contact pressure.

Very early Ford lifters were flat. Later they ground them on a 96 inch radius which is close enough to tapered that they trapped a boundry layer of oil and worked ok.

Last edited by Pete; 07-13-2020 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

This is a education and canít thank everyone enough for taking the time to post a worth of knowledge .

The old Harley all had fixed Solid roller lifter . I beat one of you Hot Rod Flathead builder must Run something like that .
Again Iím just an old retired Iron Worker from NYC having fun learning from a bunch of very knowledgeable guys

Thanks again
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
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Old 07-14-2020, 04:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by meric42 View Post
I have a new set of Bob Drake adjustable lifters and presume that they fall in to the 'off shore' category? I suppose I should trash these as not suitable for the job then? Your input welcomed as I have been accumulating parts for a 99A factory relieved block and a 4" Merc crank.
Perhaps you may be able to have a hardness test carried out to assist with your
decission.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We run roller followers in our dragster, they have done a few seasons and still look like new.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Merc42 test like Phil said .

Laurie roller lifters in a ford flathead nice ...
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

We also have them in a holden 202
They work well, no link bar or that type of stuff.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Again, what’s wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster View Post
Are you sure those solid body lifters are off shore? Reason I ask the only off shore lifters I have seen are hollow copies of the Johnson lifter. The solid lifters I recall were US made. Anyone else know for sure if the solid lifters are offshore?
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Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by Ross F-1 View Post
Sealed Power makes and sells the heavier solid adjustables, last set I bought said Made in USA and "each lifter hardness tested". They looked like quality parts.

On the OP's lifters, I have to wonder if they'd pass a hardness test, but are too soft under a thin layer of hardened metal at the surface? No telling what alloy the Chinese use.
We could try asking the American company who is having them built to their specifications.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Again, whatís wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
I can think of one reason to have the adjustables, in the event of a "ticking" lifter (it can happen even with the "fixed" lifters) it becomes much easier to adjust the noise out??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To fix a ticking valve with a non-adjustable lifter is a major repair, this is just my own take on it? I am aware of the "thousands" that were running around back when, but do I prefer the option!

Understand.. But I would imagine is the valves are ground properly, there would never be a chance of a ticking lifter. For me they are easier with the right tools than adjustables.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I'm not an engine builder, but if you do get a "tick" with a non-adjustable lifter, wouldn't it be due to improper installation? And if it happens "down the road", wouldn't it be a sign of something going wrong in the valve train?
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

In looking at the lifters that you show - they appear to be "solid", not the hollow re-pop ones that we've all seen from China. So - they are not necessarily from China, they can be on-shore and they may have wear issues for a variety of reasons ---> hardness, break-in, the way the cam was ground, oil-used, etc..

Also, given that your cam was wearing into those lifters, the profile is probably not correct anymore (on the nose of each lobe), so you may experience the same problem the "next go round". Personally, I would not put new lifters on a cam that previously had that sort of wear pattern on the lifters you show. I'd have the cam checked out.

There is really no way to know what caused your specific issue.. Do you know who manufactured the lifters? Also, who manufactured the cam and were they both installed at the same time?
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

Curious if the OP could put a couple "close-up" shots of the "tops" of the lifters where the valve stems reside? I have some used adjustable lifters here that are "telling me a story" so to speak!

I see a potential issue with the non "Johnson" tappets that may be causing many of the failures we're seeing, not 100% sure, but I see a definite "design-flaw" in the off-shore pieces! It was actually mentioned to me a while back by my friend Paul over at "Topline"!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I'll have more on this subject if the OP can get that shot or two of the tops!
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I dont/Wont use adjustables but two local flathead engine builders buy all their parts from us at the shop. I have let them try different brands and the ones they liked the most and the ones we stock are Made in Turkey.... And believe me if you saw what the outside of their Building in turkey looked like, you'd spit your lunch out.

Last edited by 35fordtn; 07-15-2020 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

No history on the motor but I will take your advise and see if I can have someone check the Cam (max 1)
Cant put me finder on this build , someone spent a lot of money with all the machine work , soup to nuts but didnít clean out the coolant system .
Everything is brand new inside with only a dusting inside the motor. Iíve done some quick numbers and everything looks good.
The motor was overheating (Iím told) so I pressure tested both sides and held 20 lbs over night .

Now the Cam either the cam wasnít dialed in or itís dead nuts on . I will know soon after itís cleaned Iím going to mock it up .

I will post some more pictures tonight

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Again, whatís wrong with original non adjustable lifters??
Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:38 PM   #39
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

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Nothing....Try turning 8100 with adjustables in a race engine.

Not too much wrong with adjustables for a mild street engine that willl never see 4000 rpm, EXCEPT for a couple of things these days. That is the quality of the holllow ones and weight of the solid ones.

Most people building flatheads these days are doing mild street engines and have been brainwashed by the media that you need adjustable lifters to go fast.
The biggest selling point for adjustables is, they can be installed by anyone in their back yard with no special tools other than a common nail. There are very few shops left that have the tools and the knowledge to install stock lifters any more. In fact, there are very few shops doing flathead Ford engines any more.

Just for the record, stock lifters can be adjusted in HALF the time it takes to do a set of adjustables and the "ticking" argument is like saying, the beer supply is going to run out. Sells lots of lifters though.
Pete, Thanks.. All this talk about everyone using only adjustable lifters made me wonder

I agree that once I was schooled and acquired the old trick tools for the job, I can do a set of non adjustables in less than a hour, and I'm not building these things every day or week like you guys. Adjustables always take me longer and many cuss words are said when using them.... for me anyways...

After two bad experiences I'll NEVER use adjustables again, and not have to worry about them loosening up..
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: Off shore adjustable lifters

I think I read a while back on the H.A.M.B. that they do lifter restoration here maybe they offer a hardening process maybe call and ask https://www.deltacam.com/
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