Flathead synchronized 4spd?

[str8axle63]

New to flatheads, I have a 42 ford M-H truck. I was wondering if there is a 4 spd synchronized transmission that would be a direct bolt on that fits a flathead v8. Ive read that guys use the T5, which I guess you need a different bellhouse, any reviews on that?
Thanks for your help
Donn

[skidmarks]

T 98 synchro silent but the correct one is hard to find. Most were behind 6cyl in F6 trucks 50 to 52. 53 and up wont work.

[JSeery]

With the T5 you can use a custom bellhousing or a hogshead and an adapter plate.

[Ross F-1]

You'd open a real can of worms on an M-H, trying to retain the 4WD, with any other trans.

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

You'd open a real can of worms on an M-H, trying to retain the 4WD, with any other trans.

Dont they have a divorced transfercase with a short driveshaft?

[str8axle63]

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Im taking out the transfer case and the other box, don't know what its called but it creates more "drag". Im keeping everything so it can be reversed.
I want to get a trans that doesn't need to be double clutched.
I was thinking the t5 as sort of an overdrive, better cruising mph

[skidmarks]

The other box could be a brownie.

What size truck is it?

A T170 might be a better choice then a s10 t5.

[str8axle63]

Its a snogo Marmon-Herrington

[JSeery]

Haven't we gone over this before?

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248695

[rotorwrench]

Yea, been here before. The T5 isn't really suited for 1 1/2-ton size or larger trucks. The T-98 is the only one that would make life any easier. If I had to go through that much trouble, I'd trade it for something that fit my needs better. The Sno-Go was an under drive truck made to go 30MPH up & down aircraft runways all day in inclement weather. It would be difficult and time consuming to make it into a viable road going truck.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

Im taking out the transfer case and the other box, don't know what its called but it creates more "drag". Im keeping everything so it can be reversed.
I want to get a trans that doesn't need to be double clutched.
I was thinking the t5 as sort of an overdrive, better cruising mph

After a while it will become normal to double clutch and it won't bother you. How many miles have you driven it? Much easier than replacing the transmission.


Charlie Stephens

[blucar]

I would think that a BW T-98 would be the best fit. There is a version of the T-98 that was a 5 spd OD trans, quite common in school bus applications. I have a '59 Ford school chassis that was converted into a Farm Hand unit.. The GM medium duty trucks of the '60's had a 5 spd Clark tran's that was an OD in 5th gear.. The early model 5 spd OD transmissions are very difficult to find, and quite expensive.. The 4 x 4 off roaders have discovered them because they will fit into the CJ Jeeps that used the T98 trans.

[rotorwrench]

There is a thread on here where a guy modified an NV4500 to work behind a flathead but it's a later F5 I believe. Here is a link. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1479414.

That is one big sum beach of a transmission though. A person could use an NP205 transfer case if they wanted 4WD but it's all pretty big stuff.

[str8axle63]

Sort of I guess, sorry.
This is more trying to find out if there is a direct bolt on 4spd transmission to the flathead bellhouse that is synchronized,
I am trying to find the best way to get my truck to be able to drive a reasonable speed, over 30 mph.
I would like to hear from different guys who may have a t5 or any other transmission they are happy with. Maybe someone has done this already and I can pick their minds a little to help me.
If my first post satisfied me towards my goal I would not have asked again,
So sorry if my questions bothered you. If I ask again please don't read it,, im just looking for help from guys with more experience with flatheads then I do
I got a lot of great advise with my first post. Just looking for more ideas
Thanks guys, appreciate your time

[JSeery]

Well, I can answer some of it, there is nothing that just bolts in. Anything you do is custom and takes a lot of work and figuring out things as you go.

[skidmarks]

The only bolt in is the correct T98. there were many variations of the T 98 which makes it confusing.

Besides the correct era ford T98, I was told that the same one was use for a couple years in international trucks.

Midwest is were I see them for sale

But you still need to shorten the driveshaft

[42Ford M-H]

Sorry man, you have the wrong truck. Don’t gut the very thing that makes the truck super cool. Tons of 42-47 jail around for little money. Find a 2 wheel drive and put in a modern rear end.

You have a crapload of room between the tranny and transfer case. It’s gotta be close to 4ft. Take out the gear reduction drive, find a tranny. Not sure I’d go T5, but anyways. Get a driveshaft that fits and run it. .73 OD and 8.25x20 tires with 6.66 gears is 50 ish mph @ 2400 rpm if I remember right. Or put in auxiliary transmission. Honestly, just about every option is gonna run 2k ish unless you come across cheaper parts.

[itslow]

Out of curiosity, do you still have the snowblower and auxiliary engine still installed? Are you wanting to keep those but make it capable of driving at higher speeds, or are you simply wanting to turn it back into a "regular" 2WD truck?

[blucar]

The T-98 4 spd was very common in Ford trucks through '64 and CJ Jeeps through the late '70's. The T-98's have a very low 1st gear which is not syncro'd between 2nd and 1st.

When the NP T-18 came out in '65 in the F series trucks people were all over them. I wanted to change out the T-98 in my '59 F100 Y-Block 4x for a T-18. Nada, could not find a bell-housing that would bolt up to the Y-Block. I finally gave up the idea. A few years later I decided to re-power the '59 F100 with a 351W and a T-18. I again ran into the bell-housing problem... Every time I would inquire about adapters, etc., I would be told got 'Ya covered', then the bell-housing/adapter would be for a car 4spd, not truck. I finally rebuilt the Y-Block and keep the T-98, etc., power-train in the '59.
One of the problems I encountered was the engine/trans mounts. As a general rule the early 4 spd trans' use a three point mount on the engine, one front, on the timing case and one on each side of the bell-housing. Nothing under the trans. I am referring to F series after '53..
I finally found a 4 spd bell-housing that would fit a 351W by accident many years later. I parted out a '71 F100 six cylinder with a T18. The Bell-housing was for the T18, and had mounting pads on the bell-housing. Still have the bell-housing and T-18 sitting on the shelf.

I have an excellent T-98 and a bell-housing, etc., that is for a Y-Block. The Y-Blocks and most F-E series have a round bolt pattern, where-as later engines have a squared up pattern.. It just might be that a Y-Block bell could be adapted to a flat-head.

A side bar to the T-98.. They use to be cheap as dirt, however, the off road rock crawlers have discovered them because they are bullet prove and have low gear reduction. I have read that T-98's are in the $1,200. range.
When I was a teen I worked in a shop in the rural farm area of Eastern Idaho. We modified a lot of trucks to pull better in the dirt by adding aux transmissions. We would use a regular 4 spd trans mounted behind the main box. As I recall there was an option as to if the aux trans was mounted front-wards or back-wards. The man I worked for did all of the machine work, etc., in our shop, I then helped him mount the trans in the chassis.
As "Super" once said in one of the forums: "The most dangerous person in the world is a farm kid with a welder".

[rotorwrench]

I learned to drive in my Pop's 52 F3 so shifting the old T9 4-speed became easy for me. I never minded the double clutch. If you lose the under drive on that Sno-Go and install an overdrive box (over under box or whatever you can come up with), I think it would make it a lot more driveable. The old MH 4WD set up was somewhat antiquated but they worked. They usually have an on road/off road lever (positive or compensating drive) for the transfer case so that the front end can slip free from the drive system when on the road. It's kind of noisy but you only notice it in turns. These old trucks make really good pulling trucks or winch trucks. Here is a good article. http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/...e-4x4-wrecker/

[str8axle63]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply,
Unfortunetly I still don't have an answer, like " yes a t98 from ? Year will bolt up to a 1942 ford flathead 8cyl bellhouse"
I guess its not that easy

[42Ford M-H]

Unless it has overdrive, none of them will help you go faster. It will only shift easier.

If your interested in going the nv4500 route I would be too. Maybe we could find someone in the north east that would be willing to do the swap.

[rotorwrench]

Advance Adapters has info on the swap stuff they make for the NV4500. If going to 4WD, a person would need a drivers side front drop on the transfer case. Ford had some in there pickup line (NP205) but it might have to be adapted depending on where the transmission comes from. Some input shafts might be more adaptable too.

The NV4500 has a granny 1st gear but it also has the 5th gear OD. This makes it good to go in both worlds. Front and rear axle swaps would make it a Major alteration but the old Timken Detroit axles might still do the job. I guess it depends on what condition they are in. Chucks Trucks still has some stuff for them. A change like this would be a lot of research and work but at least one has already been adapted for the old flathead.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by 42Ford M-H

Unless it has overdrive, none of them will help you go faster. It will only shift easier.

If your interested in going the nv4500 route I would be too. Maybe we could find someone in the north east that would be willing to do the swap.

Here's a guy who did an NV4500 into a Y-block; putting one into a flathead should be easier I would think:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...0-5-speed.html

(not sure if you'll be able to see the pictures unless you are a member)

[str8axle63]

Originally Posted by 42Ford M-H

Unless it has overdrive, none of them will help you go faster. It will only shift easier.

If your interested in going the nv4500 route I would be too. Maybe we could find someone in the north east that would be willing to do the swap.

From what ive read the nv4500 seems like a pretty involved conversion.
Maybe im missing the advantage of the nv4500, is it better then
The t-98? Or t5?
Minimally id like to start with a synchronized 4spd but even finding that seems like a lot of guess work.
This being my first flathead I did not realize their not easy to match parts to.
Im thinking that maybe taking out the reduction box and transfer case. Change the rear gears to hopefully a 4 something maybe the best way to go

[Tinker]

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I think.... you are jumping into the fire and maybe don't even have a match. You have a special setup, if I'm reading right with the 4 wheel conversion.


Again, what do you want out of this vehicle?



You could just swap full chassis with someone that wants a m/h system. I know, it's neat to make it try to make it work but the whole system might not hold up to gear change.



Sell it off and have fun.

[42Ford M-H]

I wouldn’t bother with a T 98, for what ? Synchro gears? Double clutching isn’t that big a deal once you do it for a few weeks. You won’t go any faster down the rd. T5 behind a 1.5 ton truck, sounds iffy from anyone I’ve asked. If you baby it, it will probably live. Ofcourse take the gear reduction drive out. Take the transfer case out? Not sure what that gets you really. You can’t put anything lower then 5:14 in your axles. If you can find them. 5.83’s are easier to find. Not sure what you plan to do with that truck, but 5:14 gears with any kind of weight in that truck and it won’t have enough power to get out of its own way. But it’s flat where you are so maybe it won’t matter. The nv4500 I don’t understand why it matters if it’s 4x4. As long as the angle of the driveshaft isn’t more than 5-6 degrees why would it matter? I could be missing something. I need a pto output for my dump box. Sounds like the nv4500 fits the bill. The nv4500 is way tougher than the T5. And has over drive, as does the T5. The t98 has no overdrive.

[Tinker]

42Ford M-H i'm projecting, but I think this is a project that wants to be something it's not. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

[str8axle63]

I Really like the stance of this truck, the M-H leafs give lift a stock truck does not have.
Im not going to use it as an all wheel drive. The cab and frame are in very good shape, basically just surface rust. You cannot find a truck like this in my area. I got the engine running really good, it is very strong.
Looking to just cruise to shows / local street hang outs. Just want to be able to drive 40 to 50 mph top speed.
Not going to do anything that cant be reversed .
I like THIS truck, don't want a stock, factory truck. Taking out the transfer case and the reduction drive box is a one day job. Without the transfer case I will only need the gears changed in the rear.
So looking for a syncro tranny just makes it more driveable in my opinion . What im planning is not major surgery, just a driving upgrade.

[Tinker]

I get it, but once you take all the things off of it that make it what it is, you have changed it.

Transfer case more/most importantly. But you have a plan to take a 4x4 system to go to a show. all good. Guess I could understand better if you were trying to gearup a rare 4x4 m/set-up.

Why I was wondering why not a easy chassis swap. Instead of hacking a something up?

Maybe save the chassis for the next one you build. Don't know.

.

[42Ford M-H]

So sorry in advance for being a jerk, but I have to say it. It's been bugging me all morning.

Just sell the 4x4 chassis, its worth more all together. But.... you could just sell the axles and transfer case. Put in a 2 wheel drive front end with 3-4 lift blocks. Get a dana rear end which bolts right in. Then you can put in any gears you want. 3.73 , 4.11 whatever...The dana will probably already have highway gears in it.

Could even do front disc brake conversion. On top of all that the truck would probably be 1200 pounds lighter, maybe even more. The gears alone for your rear end will cost more then swapping to 2 wheel drive with a dana rear end. If you take your transfer case out your going to need the drive line from a 2 wheel drive truck. You'll need 2 driveshafts and the carrier bearing. Then you're going to go to a truck show and someones going to see the front end and go oh cool and 4x4. Then they will look and the rest will be missing and their going to be like.... ummmm wth..
I have a 1.5 ton 2 wheel drive chassis, with hardly any rust on it. I'll swap you for your axles, transfer case and drive shafts from the transfer case to the axles. I'll even get you a Dana rear end with highway gears.

[str8axle63]

I appreciate everyone's input. Seems no one gets what im looking to do or just does not agree with it. Which is fine. So ill just end this conversation with a thank you for your ideas. This is going to be a winter project hopefully ill have some pictures of the finished truck in the spring

[itslow]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

I appreciate everyone's input. Seems no one gets what im looking to do or just does not agree with it. Which is fine

People understand what you're wanting to do, but simply don't see the logic in doing it when there are much better routes to take to achieve your end goal.

[42Ford M-H]

Pull the tranny and under drive out. Either go with a T5 and baby it or something else with OD, like a NV4500. Then build a drive shaft from the tranny to the transfer case. All done

And that keeps it the cool MH 4x4 truck it was built to be, and I'm guessing the reason you bought it in the first place.

Good luck with your truck, in the end whatever you do with it is better then it rotting in a field or going to the scrap heap and if you decide you want to swap parts let me know. I'd love to have them

[str8axle63]

Originally Posted by itslow

People understand what you're wanting to do, but simply don't see the logic in doing it when there are much better routes to take to achieve your end goal.

Let me know when you find logic in spending thousands of dollars to rebuild 50 year old vehicles when you could buy a brand new car/truck ? Its a passion for most of us . Even though I am not into air bagged lowered cars I do respect that might be a passion for other people and I respect their love for something I would not be into.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

Let me know when you find logic in spending thousands of dollars to rebuild 50 year old vehicles when you could buy a brand new car/truck ? Its a passion for most of us . Even though I am not into air bagged lowered cars I do respect that might be a passion for other people and I respect their love for something I would not be into.

Each to there own - I to am not in to airbag lowered cars either but also I respect that some people are . The issue is I would never be able to give them advice about how to set up such a vehicle. It seems that you are asking for advice on how to do something most of us would not consider doing . The HAMB might be a more appropriate forum - All the best with your project -Karl

[itslow]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

Let me know when you find logic in spending thousands of dollars to rebuild 50 year old vehicles when you could buy a brand new car/truck ? Its a passion for most of us . Even though I am not into air bagged lowered cars I do respect that might be a passion for other people and I respect their love for something I would not be into.

The logic that's being questioned is buying a truck with fairly unique and rare conversions on it (M-H 4WD and SnoGo blower setup), and then turning it into a 2WD truck to drive down the highway while expecting it to be a "bolt-on and go" type deal. In that case, what's the point of having something with the aforementioned?

You seem to be fixated on something that's a "direct bolt on", when options have been laid out to allow you to keep the M-H conversion but use a more modern and friendly transmission. Yeah, it'll be a bit more involved, but isn't part of the "passion" figuring that sort of stuff out?

How much have to driven the truck so far? You seem to be too concerned about double-clutching when the main issue is the really getting it up to a road speed that's appropriate for your intended usage. After a short while the double-clutching will become 2nd nature and not that big of a hassle or problem.

[str8axle63]

Originally Posted by itslow

The logic that's being questioned is buying a truck with fairly unique and rare conversions on it (M-H 4WD and SnoGo blower setup), and then turning it into a 2WD truck to drive down the highway while expecting it to be a "bolt-on and go" type deal. In that case, what's the point of having something with the aforementioned?

You seem to be fixated on something that's a "direct bolt on", when options have been laid out to allow you to keep the M-H conversion but use a more modern and friendly transmission. Yeah, it'll be a bit more involved, but isn't part of the "passion" figuring that sort of stuff out?

How much have to driven the truck so far? You seem to be too concerned about double-clutching when the main issue is the really getting it up to a road speed that's appropriate for your intended usage. After a short while the double-clutching will become 2nd nature and not that big of a hassle or problem.

With that type of logic, you must hate every chopped 32 Ford, any car turned into a gasser, hot rod etc..

[str8axle63]

Originally Posted by Karl

Each to there own - I to am not in to airbag lowered cars either but also I respect that some people are . The issue is I would never be able to give them advice about how to set up such a vehicle. It seems that you are asking for advice on how to do something most of us would not consider doing . The HAMB might be a more appropriate forum - All the best with your project -Karl

There is an easy answer to that, if most of "you" would not consider doing something then don't reply to the post

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

There is an easy answer to that, if most of "you" would not consider doing something then don't reply to the post

I think it is important to reply to a post if you don't agree with what is being done. Hopefully explaining why you think it is a bad idea. If enough people have a negative reaction to what is being proposed it may pay to take a second look. People don't need a cheering section, but they may need a reality adjustment. I hope people don't just want to hear how good their idea is but rather what other people think of their ideas. I don't want to be the person that points out the beautiful clouds when the person is about to step into dog poop.

Charlie Stephens

[42Ford M-H]

Did you think about putting in a 2wheel drive front with a Dana rear at all? Keeping the ride height in the front is no big deal at all.

[tubman]

People who do unusual things in their builds don't go to online forums asking for advice. If you want to do it, just do it.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by str8axle63

With that type of logic, you must hate every chopped 32 Ford, any car turned into a gasser, hot rod etc..

Actually, I'm a hot rodder, not a restorer. That said, I do respect the importance of unique vehicles such as a M-H and SnoGo converted truck. I wouldn't chop its top and turn it in to a hot rod; I'd let someone who respects what the truck is and do right by it have it instead.

What wouldn't do, however, is come to a restorer's forum asking for an easy "bolt-in" way of doing something and then pout when those people instead provide me with better alternatives that would allow me to achieve my end goal while maintaining the bits of the truck that make it what it is.

You wanted help from people with more experience. You got it.

[Tinker]

I'm good with hotrodding too, if it's good one. If you are going to slam it with bags, give it a rust patina, or bubble gum paint job with a sbc. I have no interest.


There are ways to get thing things done, I guess.


Kind of think of the stock 32 as the last dodo bird. But there might be one left in a zoo to view. It's your thing, do what you like. Follow through and don't f' it up. pulling for you.

[str8axle63]

I was not looking for a "cheering section" or anyones opinion on my build. I was only looking for ideas on a synchronized 4spd that would work good with a flathead as I have no experience with flatheads.
I really don't care what anyone thinks is the right way to build MY truck. When I built my 63 Econoline 8 years ago people were telling me it was a waste of time and effort building such an "ugly " truck. Now 8 years later after different tv shows, such as Gas Monkey, have built Econoline pickups and my truck getting into Car Kulture Deluxe opinions have changed.
As far as not building it the right way, at this point its looking like im going to change the transmission to a synchronized 4 or 5 spd, take on the diminishing gear box, leaving in the transfer case, but disconnecting the front drive shaft and changing the gears in the rear differential . Nothing that cant be reversed. So I would prefer keeping your negative comments to yourself and would welcome any ideas on a transmission that I originally asked for.