Narrow V8 Rear Axle

[jeepguy1948]

I have a problem to deal with and I am simply seeking help from some more experienced than me. I fail to understand why it’s a sin to ask for help, it should not matter to you what MY car looks like, it’s my car, if I feel I need a narrower axle than I need a narrower axle, the why is not your concern. I want what I want and it’s my car, end of story, help or don’t help. To those who have made suggestions and offered some solutions I thank you. Alchemy, I agree with your last sentence.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

I have a problem to deal with and I am simply seeking help from some more experienced than me. I fail to understand why it’s a sin to ask for help, it should not matter to you what MY car looks like, it’s my car, if I feel I need a narrower axle than I need a narrower axle, the why is not your concern. I want what I want and it’s my car, end of story, help or don’t help. To those who have made suggestions and offered some solutions I thank you. Alchemy, I agree with your last sentence.

We're just confused at how they stick out really wide on your car but haven't on cars built in decades past.

A photo would really help to illustrate the issue.

[jeepguy1948]

Here is the best answer I have: There have been plenty of people disappointed about the width the brakes add but most, if not all, have apparently chosen to live with it. If using original 21” or 19” wheels the brakes definitely create an odd look but no clearance issues. When using 16” wheels the clearance get’s really tight but can be lived with by most. I am apparently using a wider tire and I am also trying to lower the car as much as possible but still have decent suspension travel hoping to have a decent ride. I think that a great many messing around with old cars are the same as me, very detail oriented. Even the small details matter (a lot). I had the fit I wanted with the stock A axle so it stands to reason that adding 1.5” on each side is going to cause a problem. Options are (1) raise the rear spring and limit the travel and live with the look (pure 1970’s) (nope, not gonna do it). (2) abandon the wire wheels and use a wheel with more offset (nope, not gonna happen). (3) change tires (nope, not gonna happen). I want the look that I want (and that I had actually) and in the end that’s it, there is no better explanation. I call this a problem because I had the fit I wanted and after installing the brakes I don’t and I am not willing to compromise. Maybe people could accept my thinking better if I just quit saying a problem and just state what it is I want to accomplish. I suppose that I am on a forum not oriented to hot rods and customs but even so I would think that for most people it is understood that you are building a car to suit your own taste. Unless you are building the car to sell then your own vision is all that matters. I cannot understand the number of commments that simply state that I don’t have a problem. To those I can only say that I want the look I want and I don’t have it anymore. I should not have to argue my point, isn’t the fact that I want it good enough? Do I need to prove it with pictures (I can’t right now because of recent surgery but I’m sure the clearance issue would not show up very well because it’s subtle and there are many that would still say it’s ok). A photo would not help at all because why should I have to prove my point? I want want I want because it’s my car and I want it. Why, when I get tired of having to explain over and over what I want and justify my wanting it, then I’m considered a turd? I just do not understand what is going on here. Would you like to post pictures of your car so that we all can find fault with it (keep in mind that beauty is in the eye of the beholder)? Does anybody at all have the right to tell me what is and is not a problem on my car? Does anybody have the right to tell me what my car should look like? Simply put, if I ask you for your opinion about how my car looks then absolutely you can and should give it but if I’m not asking you for it than it’s none of your business. Is it not sufficient for me to say I want to get from point A to point B and I would appreciate help figuring out the best way to accomplish it? I’m not putting my car and my wife in the same category but as a point of reference would you like to post pictures of your wife and ask our opinion of how she looks and what is and isn’t wrong (maybe you like women with 3 heads, it’s none of my business). I am told that “we just need more and more info and more and more pictures because we must have them to “help” you. Respectfully, no, you don’t. Every single person on here knows what the rear suspension on a Model A looks like and that is all that is all you need to know. What would be the best way to narrow the stock axle width? Can somebody narrow a Model A axle (at a reasonable cost)? Is an axle swap needed to accomplish the desired goal? The question is not should I want it or need it, that is for me to decide. I really appreciate the comments and advice that would help me achieve my goal, I really do, however a number of posters are not trying to help at all.

[Bored&Stroked]

We're on the same page . . . and I hope my recommendations of how to effectively modify a V8 style rear for width, added strength and the ability to use the brakes you have works for you.

Best of luck!

[jeepguy1948]

Sorry for the rant, a lot of pain this morning. FWIW I only chose a V8 axle because if I have to go to the trouble of altering an axle it may as well be a stronger V8 axle. I have done a lot of research and so far have not found a source for a shorter axle shaft (if anybody knows of one, please share). Giving up on narrowing a Banjo axle the next logical choice (in my opinion) is a narrowed Ford 8” with no bolts showing as would be the case with a GM 10 bolt for example. If anyone knows of another alternative I’m all ears please share (really, I mean it LoL). Back to the 8”, axles in any length and with a 5 x 5.5 pattern are available at a fairly reasonable cost so I don’t have to worry about the axle shafts just the housing and I think I could use those $$$ brakes on it if I measured right. FWIW all of the comments about an 8” would apply to a 9” as well but a 9” is heavier and I need the smaller pumpkin to squeeze under the cross bar. Again, sorry for the rant.

[Andy]

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I have a Maverick in my car. It has the 1 in adapters. The total width is 58 in. The wheels fit over the drums. you would need the 3/16 rings to fit in the wheels for support

[itslow]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

...I suppose that I am on a forum not oriented to hot rods and customs but even so I would think that for most people it is understood that you are building a car to suit your own taste...

You've asked this same question on the HAMB, though, which is a site dedicated to traditional hot rods.

You're getting gruff because you aren't illustrating your purported issue. Illustrate the situation and people will be better able to understand it. Why are people having a tough time understanding the issue? Because folks have installed hydraulic brakes on the Model A for decades without having their wheels pushed out to the edges of the fenders.

We're trying to figure out why now in 2024 (and verify with our eyes) that things suddenly don't fit anymore.



All that said...

To accomplish what you want with a banjo and these brakes, you will need to ditch the Model A spring - or have a custom one made - because narrowing the axle will require the spring perches be moved inward, which will then be too narrow for the stock spring. Using a spring behind the axle with a will require you to extend the frame and fabricate a different rear crossmember or move the stock one rearward. You could convert to coil-overs and retain the original crossmember (but there goes the traditional look).

If you stay with the Model A banjo you'll also have to modify the radius rods since their mounting width is now different.

If you go to a V8-era banjo, you'll have to shorten its torque tube and driveshaft. Depending upon the year used, you may also need to modify its radius rods since their width would now be narrower.

Narrowing any banjo will require re-machining the Ford axles, which may be labor that's difficult to source since the end you'd be modifying will require re-tapering, a new keyway, and re-hardening. You will not find any aftermarket axles of this type. Further converting it to the modern slide-in axles adds even more expense.


So, in summary here are your options:

1) Spend a *ton* of money to keep the Lincoln brakes and modify a banjo.
2) Spend probably not quite as much to source an 8" use its original brakes and hope it's width is appropriate.
3) Spend more money than #2 and narrow an 8" to fit.
4) Search for some other alternative axle from a different application/make.
5) Do what people have been doing since the '30s, follow the "formula", and use what FoMoCo has provided to us.

How much money is this worth to you?

[rotorwrench]

Itslow has a point. For spring over axle a person would have to use a narrow rear spring than fits over the mid section (unobtanium). Extend the frame 7.5" to include a crossmember for behind axle spring support. Use a narrowed 35 or 36 rear axle to get the spring hangers on the radius rods so the axle bells can be shortened. Do a Hot Rod Works axle and bearing conversion with custom splined axles and the splined side gears for the differential carrier. While your at it, find a quick change unit center section for that hot rod look. Use a shortened tubular drive shaft with the front spline stub from a 1935 drive shaft. Shorten the torque tube to match the drive shaft.

This type of stuff has been done before but the HAMB is more friendly for such things to a point. Whoever did it first didn't have the HAMB to ask questions to. They just dug through the local salvage yards and found stuff that would work. A 1990 thru 1992 Ford Ranger rear axle is as narrow as a old Mavrick/Comet set up. Get custom axles made and find a way to connect it all in.

If the problem is with the wheels as the root cause then get some custom back spaced wheels. The old aftermarket Ford style Kelsey Hayes wheels were laced and not welded. A lace type wheel has a lot more possibilities than a welded spoke wheel.