39 rear brakes dilemma

[mhsprecher]

I am rebuilding the brakes on my 39 Deluxe Fordor. I bought Raybestos replacement shoes and cannot get the brake drums back on. I thought it might be some differences in the shoes, so I put the originals back on and have the same problem, but not as severe.

There are four adjustment points on each wheel and I have adjusted them to what I think is the adjustment that is backed off the maximum adjustment, if that characterization makes sense. I have clearly done something wrong or don't understand the positioning of the shoes in order to get the drums back on. What is the secret formula or what have I done wrong? It all looks fine and conforms to the photos I have and the drawing in the shop manual.

At the top of the shoes, the parking brake mechanism seems like it puts limitations on how much you can back off the adjustment. I watched a Youtube of someone installing brakes like mine. I struggled to get the cross arm for the parking brake on. He had no difficulty installing it, so maybe that is my issue. I don't see any other way to put it together. Any ideas?

[Kurt in NJ]

Have you backed off the parking brake adjustment—- perhaps disconnect it
Have the shoes been fitted to the size of the drum?

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Have you backed off the parking brake adjustment—- perhaps disconnect it
Have the shoes been fitted to the size of the drum?

Yes and yes.

[38 coupe]

The bottom adjustment helps center the shoe on the backing plate. When you hold the drum up to the shoes take a look and see what direction the shoes need to go, and adjust the bottom to make that happen. The top adjustment moves the shoes apart or in, you need to start with them fully in.


This is assuming stock 39 backing plates, not post-war or Lincoln or something else.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

The bottom adjustment helps center the shoe on the backing plate. When you hold the drum up to the shoes take a look and see what direction the shoes need to go, and adjust the bottom to make that happen. The top adjustment moves the shoes apart or in, you need to start with them fully in.


This is assuming stock 39 backing plates, not post-war or Lincoln or something else.

38 Coupe, that is what I have done. The brakes are totally stock. I have the top adjustments fully in, but it appears that the parking brake mechanism is what limits how far they can go in.

[38 coupe]

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Hmm, I don't remember having that problem. Are the two parts of the parking brake mechanism seated together properly? Are they installed in the correct holes in the shoes?


Image courtesy of the Early Ford Store

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

The bottom adjustment helps center the shoe on the backing plate. When you hold the drum up to the shoes take a look and see what direction the shoes need to go, and adjust the bottom to make that happen. The top adjustment moves the shoes apart or in, you need to start with them fully in.


This is assuming stock 39 backing plates, not post-war or Lincoln or something else.

38 Coupe, that is what I have done. The brakes are totally stock. I have the top adjustments fully in, but it appears that the parking brake mechanism is what limits how far they can go in.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Hmm, I don't remember having that problem. Are the two parts of the parking brake mechanism seated together properly? Are they installed in the correct holes in the shoes?


Image courtesy of the Early Ford Store

Yes to all of the above. There is a drawing in the shop manual that is better. I can take a pic of mine and post it, plus the diagram from the shop manual.

[mhsprecher]

38 Coupe: yes to your questions. I will take a pic of my brakes and post it. I probably can't get to it until Weds.

[1939mars]

Here are pics of my brakes as I disassembled them. Hope they help

[Ken/Alabama]

On the lower adjuster make sure the dots are facing one another. That’s the high point on the adjustment cam. Brings the shoes all the way in.

[Ggmac]

Is you wheel cyl seized, or possibly expanded a little during the install? The wheel cyl should collapse and give you the clearance. In one picture it looks like its stuck out a little .
Are your shoe tabs aligned with the piston slots ?

[rockfla]

"IF" it is any help to you, sometimes a picture is worth 1000 words. My 39 Mercury

[51504bat]

This might help or not. I believe it was from a posting either here on the Barn or the HAMB.

[Terry,OH]

When installing the shoe return spring make sure it is installed in a way so it does not touch any of the linkage. If the ends of the spring are under any of the linkage it will bind the shoe operation.

[mhsprecher]

I rebuilt the wheel cylinders as a part of this project.

I will check and make sure the dots on the adjusters are closest to one another. I think I did that, but will check again.

I think the return springs are installed properly, but I will check again.

[Mart]

If you are still having problems, you could start by fitting just the shoes, like on a front brake setup. If they fit ok, then try with the emergency brake parts also fitted. If the shoes alone do not go on you can at least limit the investigation to the shoes.
If the shoes alone go on ok, and it's not ok with the emergency brake parts fitted then that will tell you where to look.
I would leave the cables unattached for the initial investigation of the emergency brake parts.

It's just a step by step sanity check approach.

Mart.

[mhsprecher]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I took a pic of my setup last night and looking at it and some of the comments, I am thinking that the parking brake cable is the culprit. I will move the parking brake lever out, which should bring the rear shoe in. I am hoping that is the problem. I have the parking brake fully released, but it may not be enough to get the drum on.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I took a pic of my setup last night and looking at it and some of the comments, I am thinking that the parking brake cable is the culprit. I will move the parking brake lever out, which should bring the rear shoe in. I am hoping that is the problem. I have the parking brake fully released, but it may not be enough to get the drum on.

Maybe its me BUT the shoes at the top at the wheel cylinder seem a little too far out compared to my photo. ALSO did you compare your old shoes in this area to the new ones??? IF Memory serves me right, the new shoes have a slightly longer tang for the wheel cylinder cup than your old ones???? Michael at Third Gen (when I was doing mine on my Mercury) was the one who alerted me to this......I think I had an old post where this was mentioned!!! ALSO making sure on the parking break can hurt either!!!

[mhsprecher]

"Maybe its me BUT the shoes at the top at the wheel cylinder seem a little too far out compared to my photo. ALSO did you compare your old shoes in this area to the new ones??? IF Memory serves me right, the new shoes have a slightly longer tang for the wheel cylinder cup than your old ones????"

I compared the new and the old shoes. They look pretty similar, but I will check again when I take the brake apart again. Your point about the shoes being farther out at the top is probably due to the parking brake. I will check that out today and see what that does.

[rockfla]

You could check the E-Brake lever real quick, just disconnect the cable and leave it, push the lever in and try the drum and see IF it fits.

[Zeke3]

It looks like the parking brake is applied. Compare the picture of your brake with the picture of Rockfla's in post #13, the lever is much more forward on your brakes than on his. You can also see that the spring on the emergency brake cable is almost fully compressed on your brakes.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by Zeke3

It looks like the parking brake is applied. Compare the picture of your brake with the picture of Rockfla's in post #13, the lever is much more forward on your brakes than on his. You can also see that the spring on the emergency brake cable is almost fully compressed on your brakes.

It does. I noticed that myself. I checked the parking brake lever before I started working on this. I will see what is up with that. Maybe monkeying with the connecting the cable did something? Regardless, an easy fix.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

It does. I noticed that myself. I checked the parking brake lever before I started working on this. I will see what is up with that. Maybe monkeying with the connecting the cable did something? Regardless, an easy fix.

The wire going from the center of the car out to the backing plates "should" have a "little" slack in it. IF Its banjo tight...BINGO!!!!

[FlatheadTed]

The vertical handbrake arm in its relaxed position should be back against the shoe ,Back of the hand brake cable at the gear box , Ted

[mhsprecher]

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Thanks for all the comments. Once I took a photo of the brakes and looked at it I knew what the problem was. As some have said, it was the parking brake. Not sure why it was so tight? It was released, but maybe I adjusted the cable too tight.

I figured it was something simple or something stupid I had done. It helps to get other eyes on a problem.

[Mart]

The cable would have been adjusted to suit the wear on the old shoes. It is often the case that it needs readjusting (slackening off) after fitting new shoes.

Mart.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by Mart

The cable would have been adjusted to suit the wear on the old shoes. It is often the case that it needs readjusting (slackening off) after fitting new shoes.

Mart.

Agreed, but I am surprised it was off as much as it was as the old shoes (shown in pic) were not that worn. In any event, an easy, if embarrassing, fix.

[cas3]

On a positive note, that means you kept your E brake properly adjusted !

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by cas3

On a positive note, that means you kept your E brake properly adjusted !

Well, that is true! Hard to believe that they weren't too tight, but I have not driven the car much in the last few years. I am redoing the wheel cylinders, master cylinders and will replace the shoes if need be. I am finishing up the rears. The fronts are next, now that I have this "duh" problem figured out.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

This might help or not. I believe it was from a posting either here on the Barn or the HAMB.

This is really helpful. Thanks for posting it.