Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-22-2020, 05:56 PM   #1
Razkid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 16
Default Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

A friend bought a 1930 Roadster that hasn't been started in four years. He tried to insert the hand crank to see if the engine would turn over but the hand crank won't fit into the nut on the front of the crankshaft. The front of the engine sits too high for the hand crank to engage the nut. When you look through the hole in the bottom of the radiator shell it appears the engine is about 1/4" too high. It appears to have the original style front mount. Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas of what could be wrong? TIA.
Razkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 06:14 PM   #2
Marshall V. Daut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Posts: 1,447
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Check your private messages in the top right corner of this webpage.
Marshall
Marshall V. Daut is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-22-2020, 06:54 PM   #3
1930-Pickup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: southern California
Posts: 725
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razkid View Post
A friend bought a 1930 Roadster that hasn't been started in four years. He tried to insert the hand crank to see if the engine would turn over but the hand crank won't fit into the nut on the front of the crankshaft. The front of the engine sits too high for the hand crank to engage the nut. When you look through the hole in the bottom of the radiator shell it appears the engine is about 1/4" too high. It appears to have the original style front mount. Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas of what could be wrong? TIA.
This can happen if your frame is sagged at the rear engine mounts. Its fairly common with the A.
__________________
"That's my wild unsubstantiated guess, and I'm sticking to it regardless of the facts!"
1930-Pickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 07:08 PM   #4
Sunnybrook Farm
Senior Member
 
Sunnybrook Farm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 405
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

My unrestored car is like that though I can get the crank in while I am timing the engine, it doesn't disengage properly to where if I forget about it, the crank spins when I start the engine. It would obviously be dangerous to hand crank one that is not aligned properly. I think the problem with mine is that someone repaired a cracked cross member and raised the whole thing up a little bit.
Sunnybrook Farm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 07:36 PM   #5
Chris Haynes
Senior Member
 
Chris Haynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Hills, CA and Pine Grove, CA
Posts: 2,504
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

If the front motor-mount is installed backwards this is the result.
__________________
1921 Runabout
1930 Tudor
Early 1930 AA
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
Chris Haynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 07:47 PM   #6
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 2,004
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
There are some to long or to stiff mount springs as well.
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 08:02 PM   #7
Razkid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 16
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

1930-Pickup, Thanks for your reply. Is there a way to check for this with the car together? On a bare frame I would imagine you can run a straight edge along the top of it to see if it has sagged.
Sunnybrook Farm, I did look to see if the cross member had been welded and didn't see any signs of a repair. Thanks for your reply.
Chris Hayes, Is there a way to tell if the mount is reversed by looking at it from the side? I don't want to take the radiator off if it isn't necessary. Thank you for your reply.
Chuck Sea/Tac, Any idea what the installed height should be of the motor mount springs? I have family in Gig Harbor and I used to stay in Bremerton when I went out there for work in the area. Nice part of the country!
Again, thanks for all of the responses, including from Marshall!

Last edited by Razkid; 08-22-2020 at 08:34 PM.
Razkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2020, 10:28 PM   #8
1930-Pickup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: southern California
Posts: 725
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razkid View Post
1930-Pickup, Thanks for your reply. Is there a way to check for this with the car together? On a bare frame I would imagine you can run a straight edge along the top of it to see if it has sagged.
Sunnybrook Farm, I did look to see if the cross member had been welded and didn't see any signs of a repair. Thanks for your reply.
Chris Hayes, Is there a way to tell if the mount is reversed by looking at it from the side? I don't want to take the radiator off if it isn't necessary. Thank you for your reply.
Chuck Sea/Tac, Any idea what the installed height should be of the motor mount springs? I have family in Gig Harbor and I used to stay in Bremerton when I went out there for work in the area. Nice part of the country!
Again, thanks for all of the responses, including from Marshall!
Typically the vertical alignment between the cowl section and the hood will be off. At least in my experience. There are others who are much more experienced in this...lets hope they chime in.

It may also be a good idea to take a good look at the rear motor mounts as well. Deteriorated rubber can mess with engine alignment a little, but many times people may have fudged with things in an attempt to make "repairs".

FYI: The front motor mount carries far less weight than it first appears. If you don't have a stock front mount, I would suggest that you put it back to stock. That's my approach, others may disagree.
__________________
"That's my wild unsubstantiated guess, and I'm sticking to it regardless of the facts!"
1930-Pickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2020, 09:14 AM   #9
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,135
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razkid View Post
1930-Pickup, Thanks for your reply. Is there a way to check for this with the car together? On a bare frame I would imagine you can run a straight edge along the top of it to see if it has sagged.
Sunnybrook Farm, I did look to see if the cross member had been welded and didn't see any signs of a repair. Thanks for your reply.
Chris Hayes, Is there a way to tell if the mount is reversed by looking at it from the side? I don't want to take the radiator off if it isn't necessary. Thank you for your reply.
Chuck Sea/Tac, Any idea what the installed height should be of the motor mount springs? I have family in Gig Harbor and I used to stay in Bremerton when I went out there for work in the area. Nice part of the country!
Again, thanks for all of the responses, including from Marshall!
Soooooo how's Marshall doing, I've always read his posts, wish Marshall the best
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2020, 06:15 PM   #10
Captjohnd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

I have the same problem on my Tudor. The front cross member has been reinforced with a piece of flat bar under the crank guide. I think ford had a problem with the front cross member as I have seen a lot of broken cross members.
Captjohnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2020, 07:03 PM   #11
2935ford
Senior Member
 
2935ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 911
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Just a thought......has a new front mount been installed? Some of those are not made well and hike the engine up enough to cause that issue.
2935ford is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2020, 07:50 PM   #12
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 776
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

The alignment of the crank bearing to the ratchet nut is the way you check to see if your driveline is parallel..if your alignment is out your drivelive isn't aligned as well,the crankshaft/trans output shaft is on a different plane than the driveshaft,your basically forcing the ujoint to 'work' and potentially causing premature wear on it and the trunnion (clamshell).So its not just the inconvenience of not being able to hand crank the engine..you need to repair the issue to insure the crankshaft and driveshaft are on the same plane..
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 07:02 PM   #13
CabrioletDon
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 32
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Hi, Razkid, I recently had exactly the same issue on my '30 Cabriolet...after replacing the incorrect front cross member (it had been replaced, poorly, before I got the car) I reinstalled the front motor mount and the front of the engine was 1/4" or so too high. There is an excellent thread on here including an entry from Marco that shows an original drawing and spring dimensions--one of the key areas I could tell was wrong in my setup was that the leather washer should be close, but not touching the mount underneath it. Turns out the springs (both the one under the cross member and the two on top) were too long and too stiff. I ordered a new, correct set from Steve at Bert's Model A, installed them, and it resolved the problem completely. Make sure if your friend makes this switch to loosen the top 2 rear motor mount bolts and remove the bottom two so the front of the engine can pivot.
CabrioletDon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 07:56 AM   #14
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razkid View Post
A friend bought a 1930 Roadster that hasn't been started in four years. He tried to insert the hand crank to see if the engine would turn over but the hand crank won't fit into the nut on the front of the crankshaft. The front of the engine sits too high for the hand crank to engage the nut. When you look through the hole in the bottom of the radiator shell it appears the engine is about 1/4" too high. It appears to have the original style front mount. Has anyone else had this problem or have any ideas of what could be wrong? TIA.
Razkid, keep us in the loop about the wind-up of this journey, as this condition appears periodically on this site.
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 12:58 PM   #15
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,243
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

We had that on the '28 Roadster. The problem was a set of 1970's mfg. front motor mount springs that were a poor reproduction.

We replaced them with a different set that had the proper tension and coil spring wire diameter, etc. and that did the trick.

Good luck. I'd start there.
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 02:12 PM   #16
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 2,004
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

I just went to the previous post with the link to Marcos. website, a barnyard.com. It comes up is nonexistent. Does anybody know what’s going on?
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 06:58 PM   #17
Jack Shaft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 776
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

https://web.archive.org/web/20140529...om/index.shtml
Jack Shaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 12:49 PM   #18
Razkid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 16
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Thanks for all of the replies! The car does have the original style front engine mount. I measured the installed spring height of my truck and his roadster and they are very close. < 1/16"difference. This leads me to believe the back of the engine is sitting too low. Is there supposed to be a rubber pad between the top of the frame mount and the rear engine mount or is it only on the side where the bolts go through? It appears the rear engine mount tab that overhangs the frame mount is sitting right on the frame mount. My truck isn't close by (in storage) so I can't check it to see.
Razkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 01:53 PM   #19
Razkid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 16
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Cape Codder, I tried to respond to your private message but it said you weren't accepting private messages!
Razkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #20
Dick M
Senior Member
 
Dick M's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ukiah, CA
Posts: 357
Send a message via Yahoo to Dick M
Default Re: Engine sits too high for hand crank engagement

Do you have float-a-motor mounts in the rear?? if so, the rubber doughnuts have softened and dropped the rear of the engine. That is a simple fix. Just buy new doughnuts for the rear...
Dick M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 PM.