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Old 06-13-2021, 08:14 PM   #1
psimet
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Default Is my block dead?

Been going through a long series of steps to get my 28 Tudor up and running after sitting for at least 25-35 years.

I decided to flush the water jacket running water through it from a hose. After 40 or so gallons I noticed a couple of small drops on the ground from the rear of the engine.

Found a crack in the block that was weeping. Cylinder 4. Under the edge of the lip on the drivers side. Picture is looking up at it.

Ran the borescope into each cylinder and not water in them. Also no water in the oil.

Options?

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Old 06-13-2021, 08:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Not yet! Clean it up and see what it really looks like! Let us know once cleaned up!
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Clean it up, sand blast, and recheck. It can be cast iron welded or brazed as the A's do not run a pressurized system. B U T if the block is not the original, serial numbers matching, do not worry, just get another block. should be less than having the one you have repaired. One other thing to check before spending funds on your block is the size of the bore. if it is at .100 over it "should" be sleeved back to standard bore. Just another reason to look for another block. I do not know where you live but around here Model A engines that are not runners are cheap, $100.00 or so, just a block goes for $50.00 + or- .
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

If 2 main bearing webs and 2 intake ports can be added to a block, that simple crack can be tig welded in about 15 minutes and have a blanket over it cooling down.
If you can find a used block that doesn't require a bank loan to fix, go for that.
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by louwilouwi View Post
Clean it up, sand blast, and recheck. It can be cast iron welded or brazed as the A's do not run a pressurized system. B U T if the block is not the original, serial numbers matching, do not worry, just get another block. should be less than having the one you have repaired. One other thing to check before spending funds on your block is the size of the bore. if it is at .100 over it "should" be sleeved back to standard bore. Just another reason to look for another block. I do not know where you live but around here Model A engines that are not runners are cheap, $100.00 or so, just a block goes for $50.00 + or- .

Block is original. It has been rebuilt at some point and my guess based on some evidence would have been in around Ď81-Ď82 timeframe. Mechanically itís very runable.


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Old 06-13-2021, 09:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

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If it is a good runner clean up the crack with a wire wheel and J.B Weld it shut.
Looks like it is a freeze crack. If just external the repair will probably last a long time.
If it doesn't last then you are not out much.
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Ditto what 1crosscut said. JB weld can fix that once you get to clean metal.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

A machine shop near me solders cracks like that on A blocks. It can be fixed.

Someone tried to braze an engine block I have about 50 years ago and just made the crack run. I used JB Weld on it for years - had to re-apply the epoxy every couple of years. I’m about to take it to be soldered.

Good luck !
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Be careful if you sand blast. Sand can end up in places that you wll regret later, particularly around an engine.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Dad repaired a flathead Dodge with JB weld. Held up to years of hard use on the farm, was still holding 30 years later when he sold it.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:38 AM   #11
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I am 100% with 1crosscut #6.
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

That's where they crack from freezing water. I had one just like it and was able to nurse it along with Marine Tex epoxy for over 20 yrs. You really need a mechanical seal. There is no pressure, but when the epoxy falls out due to corrosion, it will leave you stranded. You never know when it will let go. Epoxy can last 10 yrs or 1yr. Braze, weld, solder however you can get it sealed and keep antifreeze in it year around.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

I had good luck with a similar crack but under the water pump area. I used a Dremel tool to V out the crack, lots of air to dry it out and did the JB weld on it. Still holding 20 years later.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:06 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

The sand blasting or wire wheel gets you a clean surface, the V-out of the groove improves mechanical adhesion, but the V should extend only partially into the block thickness. Your best repair is to do both. A die grinder with small abrasive bits will clean up the crack area to bare metal with no sand, and give a cleaner surface than a wire wheel. You want bright metal clean, and you want grip. Clean and epoxy a bit past the visible end of the crack as well.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

I have seen cracks repaired with JB Weld that are still running after many years.

(1)Find the ends of the crack, drill a 0/13" diameter stop hole at each end. The stop holes will inhibit continuing crack growth;
(2)Thoroughly prep the surfaces at the crack per JB Weld's instructions. The success of the repair is highly dependent on this step;
(3)Use a liberal application of JB Weld across the crack to seal it. Extend the JB Weld beyond the crack, especially at the ends and blend it so it's not an eyesore;
(4)Let the JB Weld cure completely before running the engine;
(5)Add a jar of Bar's Stop Leak With Pellets to your coolant. Bar's has a water pump lube in it, and it also behaves like anti-freeze.


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Old 06-14-2021, 08:35 AM   #16
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

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(1)Find the ends of the crack, drill a 0/13" diameter stop hole at each end. The stop holes will inhibit continuing crack growth;
Stop drilling is effective, but here I'd think the stop drill hole should not pierce the block otherwise you will increase the chance of leak failure. How deep are you recommending the stop drill hole extend into the block?
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
If 2 main bearing webs and 2 intake ports can be added to a block, that simple crack can be tig welded in about 15 minutes and have a blanket over it cooling down.
If you can find a used block that doesn't require a bank loan to fix, go for that.
I can never find anyone near me to weld one.... As in ever.... Yes, can be, but no one will. If I get a crack the block is history.
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:30 PM   #18
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Anyone ever had luck with cleaning it out, and using a acetlyne torch and radiator solder?
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:02 PM   #19
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Anyone ever had luck with cleaning it out, and using a acetlyne torch and radiator solder?
I have never tried soft solder but used silver solder to repair many blocks.
V the crack and hit the surrounding area where the silver will be sticking, with a sanding disc or Spiracone. Don't touch the area afterward. Use plenty of flux, an oxidizing flame and don't heat it past where the silver melts.
This will even work in an exhaust port.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

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Anyone ever had luck with cleaning it out, and using a acetlyne torch and radiator solder?
I have as B block that has been repaired that way. I think the crack was caused by accident damage who knows how long ago. The crack is in the "skirt" of the block, just behind the starter motor. I know the car was running when the motor was removed and it was stripped. No doubt oil had penetrated the cast iron of the block so getting the solder to take might have been a challenge but it was done. If ever I need to build another motor, This will most likely be the candidate.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:52 PM   #21
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I fixed one like that with JB WELD use a mirror and bevel the crack and then use clear tape to hold the weld in place. You have nothing to lose and engine stays where it is
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Let this be a lesson about using antifreeze. If engine is good runner, JB weld. If rebuilding, have it soldered or welded. It's very common up here in the north country. I rode behind a model A engine in a pietenpol airplane that was cracked nearly the full length. Fix it, keep an eye on it, don't worry about it.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Quote:
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Let this be a lesson about using antifreeze. If engine is good runner, JB weld. If rebuilding, have it soldered or welded. It's very common up here in the north country. I rode behind a model A engine in a pietenpol airplane that was cracked nearly the full length. Fix it, keep an eye on it, don't worry about it.

Well I didnít do it. Iíve owned it for over 26 years and itís never run in that time. I was too young and did t have a place, time, or money to work on it. Now I am starting. It hasnít had any water or coolant in it for 26-35 years. Hoses removed, etc. I now think because this crack was already there before then. Iíll expand in some more posts.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

So I got in and cleaned out what I can. Itís impossible with the position to get it 100% clean. Looks like it happened a long time ago and this was a JB Weld fix that has now failed. Looks like itís got a drill hole in one end of the crack. Big hole in the middle that is full of ďsomethingĒ that is soft under a sanding wheel. Guessing JB Weld.

Can only upload 1 picture at a time on my phone.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:26 PM   #25
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Looking like itís JB Weld round 2
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:53 PM   #26
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Best one i can get with the angle and lighting
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

I'm just learning Model As but know a thing or two about welding and metalwork.

Welding cast iron is a PITA and half the people who claim they can, can't. Its preheat, post cool, the right filler/electrodes, and its always risky. An old saying in the welding trade is "The correct way to weld cast iron is to get someone else to do it..."

If you can braze it, that's considerably easier.
Use a scribe to alternate-mark your faint end-cracks and groove them with a cutting wheel (they tend to vanish when you grind groove them and are hard to keep track of). A 3" wheel on a die grinder is super handy for this.

JB Weld in applications like this is basically like 'hard caulk'. There's little surface adhesion and its not going to really get into the light cracks, which is where the risk is that they get worse.
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:12 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is my block dead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psimet View Post
Been going through a long series of steps to get my 28 Tudor up and running after sitting for at least 25-35 years.

I decided to flush the water jacket running water through it from a hose. After 40 or so gallons I noticed a couple of small drops on the ground from the rear of the engine.

Found a crack in the block that was weeping. Cylinder 4. Under the edge of the lip on the drivers side. Picture is looking up at it.

Ran the borescope into each cylinder and not water in them. Also no water in the oil.

Options?

No your block isn't dead we can repair it permanently without welding and without JB weld. We've repaired blocks in worse condition than yours.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Model_A View Post
I'm just learning Model As but know a thing or two about welding and metalwork.

Welding cast iron is a PITA and half the people who claim they can, can't. Its preheat, post cool, the right filler/electrodes, and its always risky. An old saying in the welding trade is "The correct way to weld cast iron is to get someone else to do it..."

If you can braze it, that's considerably easier.
Use a scribe to alternate-mark your faint end-cracks and groove them with a cutting wheel (they tend to vanish when you grind groove them and are hard to keep track of). A 3" wheel on a die grinder is super handy for this.

JB Weld in applications like this is basically like 'hard caulk'. There's little surface adhesion and its not going to really get into the light cracks, which is where the risk is that they get worse.
I have always heard that you reverse the leads on the welder....
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:15 PM   #30
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I have always heard that you reverse the leads on the welder....
That only works w/DC welders.
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:35 PM   #31
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I had a block that I repaired with JB Weld and drove the car another 10 years that way. I wouldn't push your luck by drilling at the ends of the crack. Just wire wheel it, maybe put some metal prep on it to etch the metal like you were going to paint it and then press in the JB with a putty knife. You haven't got anything to loose making this repair.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:25 PM   #32
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I had a block that I repaired with JB Weld and drove the car another 10 years that way. I wouldn't push your luck by drilling at the ends of the crack. Just wire wheel it, maybe put some metal prep on it to etch the metal like you were going to paint it and then press in the JB with a putty knife. You haven't got anything to loose making this repair.
I am leaning this way. The last pictures I posted are after wire wheel, sanding, anything I could get in there to clean. I figure I will use acetone to clean it up and throw the JB weld on. I would MUCH prefer to get it stitched but this thing hasn't run in 25-35 years. I have no idea how well it runs and definitely don't have the engine hoist, etc to get it pulled and sent out to get fixed.

I figure if I use JB Weld and find it all runs well and I am saving it then find a year in the coming years to pull the engine and re-do it and get the block fixed.

Honestly wish I could find someone that would swing by my house and be able to stitch it in the car, working upside down. I'd pay more than I should to have that done.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:38 PM   #33
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Okay now that you have decided to go with using the J.B. Weld here is something that I do in a situation like yours where the J.B. will be clinging to vertical / underside of a surface.
J.B. Weld has a tendency to sag and droop until it starts to set up. I mix up a small test batch and then 10 minutes after that I mix up the actual batch that I will be using to do the repair. Keep testing the first bit you mixed up and when it starts to set you know that you have 10 minutes of working time to get the second batch of J.B. into place. That way you won't have to fuss around too long keeping it where it needs to be.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1crosscut View Post
Okay now that you have decided to go with using the J.B. Weld here is something that I do in a situation like yours where the J.B. will be clinging to vertical / underside of a surface.
J.B. Weld has a tendency to sag and droop until it starts to set up. I mix up a small test batch and then 10 minutes after that I mix up the actual batch that I will be using to do the repair. Keep testing the first bit you mixed up and when it starts to set you know that you have 10 minutes of working time to get the second batch of J.B. into place. That way you won't have to fuss around too long keeping it where it needs to be.

Sweet. Thatís a golden idea.


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