Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2021, 01:41 PM   #1
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default One Or All 4?

I'm getting some of the desire back to work on old cars......which is good since I just bought this '28 Sport Coupe and it needs engine work. I'm considering doing a compression check, pulling the head and checking things out and dropping the pan to see what's happening in there. The big issues is the supposed rear main leak, burning oil and oil soaked plug in #1. It also runs rough and has exhaust leaks which bother me, but could come later. Anyway, I say all this to ask.....cylinders 2-4 look fine (some soot), but if I'm going to replace the rings on #1 should I also do the others? Or if I don't see signs of oil there would I be ok to skip it? This engine was supposedly rebuilt around 1,000 miles ago.
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:10 PM   #2
Greg Jones
Senior Member
 
Greg Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Posts: 647
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Sounds like problems especially for a rebuilt engine with about 1,000 miles. Of course, depends on what "rebuilt" meant to the guy rebuilding it.

Having said that, my experience has been that you should have all four cylinders operating pretty much the same to ensure consistent compression and oil control, not to mention balance. I don't think you can buy a set of rings for just one cylinder anyway so you might as well do a light hone and ring them all.

And having said this, the proper way to approach this is to truly assess the condition of your cylinders for wear and taper. The cylinders could be out of round, tapered, who knows what and new rings may slow down but not cure your issue. Also, rear main leaks indicate the need to check the bottom end bearings for condition and clearance.

Good luck with it. Most might just say "it needs a rebuild" and it might, but who knows I have nursed some high mileage engines along in the past with a combination of skill and luck. Usually luck!
Greg Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-17-2021, 08:09 AM   #3
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,302
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Do not conclude the engine needs rebuilding / overhaul until you have evidence that supports it. Valve guides are a source of oil, and it may be that the rings in Cyl 1 have not seated yet. I suggest that you perform a cylinder leak test.

(1)Remove the valve cover;
(2)Rotate the crankshaft so both valves of Cyl 1 are closed;
(3)Put the transmission in gear and chock the wheels;
(4)Pump 75 psig air into Cyl 1, turn the air supply OFF and observe the gauge. A small amount of leak-down past the rings is normal. Check in the valve chamber for air leakage from the valves and guides.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 09:00 AM   #4
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
Do not conclude the engine needs rebuilding / overhaul until you have evidence that supports it. Valve guides are a source of oil, and it may be that the rings in Cyl 1 have not seated yet. I suggest that you perform a cylinder leak test.

(1)Remove the valve cover;
(2)Rotate the crankshaft so both valves of Cyl 1 are closed;
(3)Put the transmission in gear and chock the wheels;
(4)Pump 75 psig air into Cyl 1, turn the air supply OFF and observe the gauge. A small amount of leak-down past the rings is normal. Check in the valve chamber for air leakage from the valves and guides.
What Bob said. In addition listen by the carb and exhaust tip. You may determine if your intake or exhaust valve are leaking. Open the radiator cap and check for bubbles. Good way to check for leaky head gasket.

I would do the same for all four cylinders since you don't know the history of the engine.

Do your compression check also.
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 06-17-2021 at 01:32 PM.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 09:58 AM   #5
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

I'll have to try these things soon. I'm working on the brakes on my old truck and I want to finish that first. So, how do I seat the rings? Why did they just start being this way? Would that cause rough idling?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 11:37 AM   #6
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,747
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
You say the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago, but How many years ago? gummed up rings happen with time not miles.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 11:41 AM   #7
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
You say the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago, but How many years ago? gummed up rings happen with time not miles.

As best as I can figure, the previous owner rebuilt the engine between 2003 & 2005. So, that's been awhile. Is there some magic formula I can pour down the cylinder to loosen up the rings?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 12:07 PM   #8
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,747
Default Re: One Or All 4?

I have freed stuck rings, and valves for that matter, with Marvel Mystery Oil, and trans fluid mix. Let it soak for a few days.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 01:31 PM   #9
Flathead
Senior Member
 
Flathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 1,201
Default Re: One Or All 4?

The rings could have been improperly installed or damaged, easy to do with some types of three piece oil rings. Without disassembly you can check the crankshaft for excessive end play, if it moves back and forth much you have bearing trouble and a sure reason for oil to leak past the rear main.
Flathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 02:09 PM   #10
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

The thing I don't understand is that the oil burning blue smoke didn't start till days later after I was home. Didn't do that at the dealership. As soon as I can find a helper I'll check that end-play. As I understand it if I push the clutch in the front pulley might (but shouldn't) move forward? Right?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 02:10 PM   #11
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
I have freed stuck rings, and valves for that matter, with Marvel Mystery Oil, and trans fluid mix. Let it soak for a few days.

I assume I would need to get the piston up to TDC? How do I know that I do have?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:01 PM   #12
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,747
Default Re: One Or All 4?

As long as you can cover the piston with solvent it will get to the rings, no need to find a specific position. After it soaks for a while and while the plugs are out crank the engine some, you want the oil to leak down out of the combustion chamber before starting it up. Start it outside as it will make a smokescreen!
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:16 PM   #13
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,655
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Your rear main oil leak may be as simple as too much oil in the crankcase. Wouldn't be the first time it was overfilled. How high is the level on your dip stick.

__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 06-17-2021 at 04:34 PM.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:19 PM   #14
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 779
Default Re: One Or All 4?

CatMan, I would pull the engine to work on it. Taking the head off and the pan off will tell you a lot. You can pull the piston from #1 to look at the rings. It is just much easier to work on an engine out of the car on an engine stand.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:20 PM   #15
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Your rear main oil leak may be as simple as to much oil in the crankcase. Wouldn't be the first time. How high is the level on your dip stick.


I'll have to check when I get home. The previous owner said it did leak so he just ran it two quarts low all the time. That makes me nervous..... Also....when checking proper level should I make sure that both ends of the dipstick are securely in the block or does that matter?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:23 PM   #16
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,747
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Push the dipstick fully in. Try a quart less for a while before you rebuild the engine.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 04:54 PM   #17
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
Push the dipstick fully in. Try a quart less for a while before you rebuild the engine.

Well....it's not knocking, so......
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2021, 08:53 PM   #18
CatMan1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Pella, IA
Posts: 69
Default Re: One Or All 4?

The oil level is currently halfway between full and low. How many quarts is that thought to be?
CatMan1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2021, 10:00 AM   #19
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,318
Default Re: One Or All 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatMan1 View Post
I assume I would need to get the piston up to TDC? How do I know that I do have?
Put any piston 1/2 way up (or down) and they will all be at 1/2 way.
__________________
Play it again Sam.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 PM.