confused

[ports]

Ports here! My new 1930 model A coupe has been delivered from Mass. The car was driven up there before I purchased it. Now that it is at my house I am having trouble getting it to start and idle. Let me explain. I have gone through the start up procedures that I have read and seen on video. Ignition on, emergency brake on, trans in neutral, spark advance all the way up, hand throttle down until gas pedal starts to go down, GAV closed (clockwise) then open about 1/2. If car not started before pull choke out and push starter and let engine crank a few revolutions and then release choke. I believe these are the correct rules for starting a model A.



That being said, the GAV stops when rotated clockwise with the arrow at 9 o.clock. From that position I have been opening it up 1/2 turn which would place it in the 3 o'clock position. Does that sound right? I have noticed that the hand throttle seems to fight me when I try to pull it down. I know it should only be down enough to engage the actual gas pedal but I thought it should be free to move down the entire length freely. Also, how far should the actual gas pedal be up from the floor when not being pushed? As I pull down on the hand throttle, it feels like it is pushing back up. Hope I explained that clearly.


Secondly, I lifted up the right side of hood and noticed that there was some sediment in the sediment bowl that I had not seen when initially looking at the car. I thought maybe some came loose from the trip from Mass to Pa. I will drain the sediment bowl and clean out but first wanted to order some new gaskets before I do that. I also thought I would drain out the gas and put ethanol free gas in the tank. I will check the tank after it is emptied. Is there anything else you may suggest to me before I attempt to get it running.? ( It appears that it wants to start but neighbor said it smelled a little rich when I tried to start it) Anything have to be done with the gas shut off valve?


Someone told me that when I start I should pull the hand throttle up and down a number of times but to me that seems incorrect as all you would be doing is putting too much gas into carb.( pretty sure it is a zenith carb)


The car was owned for over 40 years by a master Model A mechanic who treated it like a family member. He got sick and passed two years ago. The car sat for that period until a friend sold it to me for the owner.s daughter. As I said when it was driven, it drove great.


I don't know if the gentleman who transported it fouled something up when starting it to get it off the trailer to get at another car he was transporting. I believed the gentleman who sold me the car explained to the transporter how to start although he was the one who said to move the hand throttle several times up and down while trying to start the car. Just a thought.


I apologize for this being so long but I am frustrated that it is now not working properly. I have the Les Andrews book and have been reading them. I live in Pottsville, Pa. and am trying to find someone who might have knowledge to help me out. I know how knowledgeable and helpful all of you are on this site and for newbies like me that is great. I know that it is something that can be corrected and it will be soon that I will have it titled, registered and out on the road. Thank you for your help. Ports

[NZ28ModelA]

Hi Ports.. In the list of steps for the starting procedure.. You didn't mention turning on the gas tap??

[Ivan in southeast va.]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. Gas on, ignition on ?
Pull a spark plug and check if it is fouled. Then we can go from there.

[1crosscut]

Sent you a private message.

[Rob Doe]

Yep, ya gotta have the fuel valve under the tank in the 'lever pointing down position'.

As I read your comment, "hand throttle down until gas pedal starts to go down," I wondered if you had the throttle open far enough. I've seen instructions that read to open the throttle 2 or 3 notches after it starts to move the pedal. Our coupe needs the throttle open some or it may not start. The idle is set quite low with the advance fully retarded.

Release the choke the instant the engine fires, and if it is 80 degrees or so and up, don't choke it steady, pull it as the engine is cranking and immediately let off. If the car doesn't fire pull and let off again as it's cranking. For lack of a good word for this, I'll say blip the choke momentarily. Holding the choke too long can flood the engine pretty quickly in the summer months.

Luck to ya.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

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Do not choke for more than a half revolution,as they flood easy. Gas will start running out of the throat if flooding. Also, depending on temp is how many revolutions you open the GAV. If everything is correct, they run at a quarter open. You’ll have to play with it to find it’s happy spot. Too open it lopes, too closed, it pops and hesitates.

[Synchro909]

Moving the throttle lever up and down several times does nothing. There is no accelerator pump in a Zenith carburettor.
You didn't say anything about using the choke (maybe I missed it) but I always pull the choke out all the way, then hit the starter. The GAV is open about 3/4 turn when I do this. As soon as I get a fire, I push it back in. Rarely does the car run then so I crank again and away it goes. If the car doesn't fire pretty much immediately, push in the choke or you will flood it and try cranking again. All of this is assuming you have a good spark at the right time.
Once it starts, pull the timing lever half way down (you will hear the motor smooth out). At this point, I set the idle using the lever and let it warm up before I drive off. The GAV is closed down to about 1/4 turn open but that varies from car to car. You will find the sweet spot. When I drive off, the throttle lever is all the way up and the timing lever all the way down.

[nkaminar]

The arrow position on the GAV is random. Do not close tightly or you can damage the seat.

Make sure gas is on and there is gas in the tank. Check flow by removing the drain plug on the carburetor, see link below. If there is sediment there may be a clog somewhere. Check flow outside and have a fire extinguisher handy.

Moving the throttle (pumping the throttle) a few times only works with more modern carburetors that have an acceleration pump. Does nothing for a Model A carburetor.

If you are getting any response from the engine then it is likely that the ignition is working OK, but you may want to check anyway. Hold the high tension lead from the coil about 1/4 inch from the head while you crank the engine to see if you have a spark.

https://model-a.org/default.html

[ports]

Thank you for your help. I have a couple of questions. When I pull down the hand throttle, it appears to go a short distance and then I feel resistance as if something is pulling back up. Is there anything I can check to see if the linkage might be stuck. Even though you would never pull it all the way down, I thought it should go down easily. Also when the actual gas pedal is not being used, how many inches is the top from the floor. I'm starting to think I may not be getting enough gas when using the hand throttle. I hope my explanation is not confusing. The car did turn over but then stopped. Thanks again Ports.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by ports

Thank you for your help. I have a couple of questions. When I pull down the hand throttle, it appears to go a short distance and then I feel resistance as if something is pulling back up. Is there anything I can check to see if the linkage might be stuck. Even though you would never pull it all the way down, I thought it should go down easily. Also when the actual gas pedal is not being used, how many inches is the top from the floor. I'm starting to think I may not be getting enough gas when using the hand throttle. I hope my explanation is not confusing. The car did turn over but then stopped. Thanks again Ports.

If you add a general location to your profile, you might find a person here lives close to you that might volunteer to come over and help you get it running.

[Rob Doe]

Ports, the hand throttle is a lever system that eventually wears and or has slack in it from 90 years of use. It interconnects to the foot throttle linkage just ahead of the firewall. The foot throttle has a fairly stiff spring on it. When you move the lever it comes up against the foot throttle linkage and its return spring.

It sounds like your not feeling the notches at the steering column. They get worn too.
Our coupe's steering wheel is positioned such that I can put my hand on one of the spokes/cross bars of the wheel and hold the throttle open against the stiff spring while using the right hand to blip the choke. (It's 90+ here today) In this weather, my GAV will be 1/4 turn open to start and a bit more as temps drop into fall and winter. I use 1/2 turn when temps are around 35-45.

It takes 15-20 minutes in fall and winter to warm the engine to 160 degrees. (no thermostat) As it warms up, I can close the GAV to 1/8 turn for driving and stopping at around 35mph. Plugs will burn clean and dry, light gray to tan. Other cars vary some.

[GRutter]

Does the horn blow and lights work? There may be a fuse (typically mounted on the starter) that could have been removed while the car was sitting or for transport. It would allow the engine to turn-over, but won't allow it to start as you will have no ignition. If no horn or lights, look for a fuse. Does the ammeter deflect as the engine is turning over? If it does, it would indicate that you have power to the ignition and the points are opening and closing. And as others have responded, check the gas valve (under the gas tank on the passenger side). Post your location !!

[jerrytocci]

Does it cough or pop.

[ETAModel]

Howdy Ports from another Newbie to the model A. It took me a while to figure out the Fordor but now she starts everytime. (It probably won't now that I've bragged on it)
First remember to turn on the fuel. The guy who sold it said he hangs his keys on the lever to tell him it's off, when the keys won't hang its on. This car has 2 valves, one under the hood, one under the dash. They both need to be open.

Then I move the throttle until I see the foot feed move. It doesn't hurt to have more throttle, you can back it off when she starts. Move the spark to the top.
It starts easier with the GAV a full turn off bottom. Where that is on your car is unimportant.

Here's where I was having trouble. I didn't listen to the seller and pulled the choke until it started, which usually meant it would flood. When I finally followed his instructions and pulled the choke for one revolution then closed it the motor started the first couple turns. It was amazing how simple it was but I thought I knew better.
Pull the choke for ONE revolution, then close it. It should start. If someone has already said this I'm sorry.
Good luck.

[ETAModel]

One more thing to worry about. Take the distributor cap off, then the rotor button, then slide a white business card between the points, cleaning the contact points. That seems to help a motor that's been sitting.

[ports]

Thanks to all for responding. I do have horn and lights and all that stuff. After I get the gaskets for the sediment bowl and flush everything out I will let you know where I am. As I said before, it ran good when I went to look at the car. I live in Pottsville Pennsylvania. I will try to update my profile. Thanks again.