The Ford Barn

Dick Steinkamp · 11-14-2016, 03:59 PM

Art and I pulled the original engine and trans in my 30 Tudor yesterday. I want to at least temporally replace the tired original engine with a "refreshed" spare I have, reseal the leaky trans, and replace the chattering clutch.

It does appear that the trans, bell, flywheel and flywheel housing (at a minimum) have been off at some time...amateur wire tie job securing the flywheel and flywheel housing bolts.

I found these in the bottom of the flywheel housing...

The bolts are 1/4" and are all sheared off. They have "special" thin heads. The sheared part is no where to be found. They do not fasten anything that would be inside the trans/bell/flywheel housing. I don't recognize the washer "keepers" and one is larger than the other 4. I don't recognize the long piece of metal with the oval hole either. The conical shaped half circle looks similar to the steering eccentric adjusting cone for a 2 tooth sector box.

They seemed to be happy just resting there. No odd noises or chipped/broken ring gear teeth.

Any idea what they are and how they got there?

SeaSlugs · 11-14-2016, 04:00 PM

all starter bendix bolts....

FYI your chatter could be caused by improper setup of flywheel face to flywheel housing. Must be perfectly parallel no more than .006" out.

Dick Steinkamp · 11-14-2016, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

all starter bendix bolts....

Thanks! How about the other pieces? Also part of the bendix?

Quote:

FYI your chatter could be caused by improper setup of flywheel face to flywheel housing. Must be perfectly parallel no more than .006" out.

I woke this one up from about a 20 year slumber. The clutch chattered pretty bad when I first got it running. It has improved substantially in the 400 or so miles I have driven it. There was a lot of "gunk" around the pressure plate and the clutch disc (no spring style) was down to the rivets on the PP side.

DougVieyra · 11-14-2016, 04:19 PM

I have often, like a great many others I am sure, wondered where my lost bolts go. I am sure many of us have had occasion when a bolt dropped and we spent hours looking for it - never to find it.

Thank you Dick Steinkamp, for letting us know where all of our lost bolts went.

Dick Steinkamp · 11-14-2016, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

Thank you Dick Steinkamp, for letting us know where all of our lost bolts went.

I've got them all. Let me know where to send yours.

SeaSlugs · 11-14-2016, 04:29 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Yea the funky tabed washers are supposed to be bent up around the thin head bolts preventing them from backing out - doesnt do much good when they break off though haha.

That one long one almost looks like a bearing shim but could be a pressed and rolled bendix washer too (think of those penny smashing machines or penny on RR tracks)

yea chatter clutch can also be caused by contaminated lining or as you found out worn out lining. Definitely check the alignment before putting everything back together!

Bob C · 11-14-2016, 04:56 PM

The part on the bottom left is the bendix spring clip.

Bob

Big hammer · 11-14-2016, 06:12 PM

At lease that mechanic was persistent 5 times before he got it right or gave up :-)

Dick Steinkamp · 11-14-2016, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

The part on the bottom left is the bendix spring clip.

Bob

Thanks, Bob.

marty in Ohio · 11-14-2016, 07:23 PM

They say, on this site, that you can retrieve these pieces with magnets and really gooey grease, but I'm not that brave. I'm glad to see that Dick proved that the car will still run with these pieces still in there somewhere. I think I may have one in there.
Marty

Tom Wesenberg · 11-14-2016, 08:41 PM

The early Bendix springs needed the shims Bob shows in #7. Without the shims the bolts can be bent or broke, as your collection of hardware shows.

Later the end coil on each end of the spring was formed to a slightly smaller diameter so the shims were no longer needed.

Marshall V. Daut · 11-14-2016, 09:44 PM

Well, at least what you guys have found after separating the bellhousing from the flywheel housing wasn't still ALIVE!!! That gawd-awful Model A I am working on for an older friend was leaking oil badly from the rear of the engine and from both ends of the transmission. Because the car was stored in a barn on a farm, the interior reeked of mice, as was to be expected. When I pulled the engine and tranny the FIRST time and separated the bellhousing from the flywheel housing, a bunch of oil and transmission lube oozed out onto my garage floor, plus some gunk on the bottom of the bellhousing that I scooped out by gloved hand. As I was wiping my hands, I noticed that there was movement in the pile of that oily, black crud on the floor. Yes, I admit it: I was startled! Whoever heard of broken starter drive bolts and cotter pins found inside a flywheel housing moving on their own?

Looking closer at the movement amid the gooey mess was a mouse in a fetal position, completely covered with oil. It was clearly in its death throes, so I helped it along with a hammer. 'Didn't want to do it, but I am not into performing heroic medical feats on rodents to save their lives. I think the ghost of that mouse has come back to haunt me and make my life miserable. Why else would I be having so much trouble with the engine/transmission repairs? 'Sounds like a logical explanation, doesn't it?
Marshall

redmodelt · 11-14-2016, 10:18 PM

When I pulled my 29 down I found something like 10 bendix bolts and washers glued in the muck at the bottom. Had 'em in a plastic bag for showing what I found, thru them out after a while.

DougVieyra · 11-15-2016, 02:03 AM

RedModel T - ". . . thru them out after a while. "
-----------------------------

Next time . . . . don't throw them out !

I am sure that some fellow FORD BARN member has them missing . . . from the bottom of his Bell Housing ! It is true - I have heard of some Model A owners who are missing these important 'weight adjustment' bolts from their housing.

redmodelt · 11-15-2016, 09:24 AM

lol

SeaSlugs · 11-15-2016, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

RedModel T - ". . . thru them out after a while. "
-----------------------------

Next time . . . . don't throw them out !

I am sure that some fellow FORD BARN member has them missing . . . from the bottom of his Bell Housing ! It is true - I have heard of some Model A owners who are missing these important 'weight adjustment' bolts from their housing.

The correct term for them are "rattleadders" sometimes referred to as "clunk intensifiers"

Tacoma Bob · 11-15-2016, 10:57 AM

Keep lookin......lost socks must be in there too. LMAO

BILL WILLIAMSON · 11-15-2016, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob

Keep lookin......lost socks must be in there too. LMAO

Like the Guy who asked his Wife, "I can't find the mates for these 2 "ORPHANED", BLUE socks"????
Bill W.

SeaSlugs · 11-15-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob

Keep lookin......lost socks must be in there too. LMAO

Might be a tupperware lid in there too! There must be a planet with a wormhole on it thats filled with lost socks, dropped bolts, and tupperware lids...

DougVieyra · 11-15-2016, 01:14 PM

And while you are looking for 'lost stuff', keep a sharp look-out for both my mind and my memory !

Art Newland · 11-15-2016, 03:13 PM

Jimmy Hoffa?

old31 · 11-15-2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Well, at least what you guys have found after separating the bellhousing from the flywheel housing wasn't still ALIVE!!! That gawd-awful Model A I am working on for an older friend was leaking oil badly from the rear of the engine and from both ends of the transmission. Because the car was stored in a barn on a farm, the interior reeked of mice, as was to be expected. When I pulled the engine and tranny the FIRST time and separated the bellhousing from the flywheel housing, a bunch of oil and transmission lube oozed out onto my garage floor, plus some gunk on the bottom of the bellhousing that I scooped out by gloved hand. As I was wiping my hands, I noticed that there was movement in the pile of that oily, black crud on the floor. Yes, I admit it: I was startled! Whoever heard of broken starter drive bolts and cotter pins found inside a flywheel housing moving on their own?

Looking closer at the movement amid the gooey mess was a mouse in a fetal position, completely covered with oil. It was clearly in its death throes, so I helped it along with a hammer. 'Didn't want to do it, but I am not into performing heroic medical feats on rodents to save their lives. I think the ghost of that mouse has come back to haunt me and make my life miserable. Why else would I be having so much trouble with the engine/transmission repairs? 'Sounds like a logical explanation, doesn't it?
Marshall

Marshall, does this look like the cute little guy that you mercifully murdered to death? (click to enlarge)

Marshall V. Daut · 11-15-2016, 04:53 PM

"Murdered to death"???? No, I KILLED him to death! It was him or me! The mouse was quite small, otherwise it wouldn't have been able to crawl up into the bellhousing through the wishbone ball cavity. What other pathway was there besides possibly slipping through one of the two air slots in the clutch inspection plate on top of the bellhousing? Cute little critter, he was. But - SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!!! Mouse-Be-Gone! Plenty of his relatives probably still left inside the headliner and in the seats. I think I'll keep my BFH handy as I continue working on the car.
Marshall

11-14-2016, 03:59 PM	#1
Dick Steinkamp Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,163	Found in flywheel housing Art and I pulled the original engine and trans in my 30 Tudor yesterday. I want to at least temporally replace the tired original engine with a "refreshed" spare I have, reseal the leaky trans, and replace the chattering clutch. It does appear that the trans, bell, flywheel and flywheel housing (at a minimum) have been off at some time...amateur wire tie job securing the flywheel and flywheel housing bolts. I found these in the bottom of the flywheel housing... The bolts are 1/4" and are all sheared off. They have "special" thin heads. The sheared part is no where to be found. They do not fasten anything that would be inside the trans/bell/flywheel housing. I don't recognize the washer "keepers" and one is larger than the other 4. I don't recognize the long piece of metal with the oval hole either. The conical shaped half circle looks similar to the steering eccentric adjusting cone for a 2 tooth sector box. They seemed to be happy just resting there. No odd noises or chipped/broken ring gear teeth. Any idea what they are and how they got there? __________________ All steel from pedal to wheel

11-14-2016, 04:00 PM	#2
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Found in flywheel housing all starter bendix bolts.... FYI your chatter could be caused by improper setup of flywheel face to flywheel housing. Must be perfectly parallel no more than .006" out. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

11-14-2016, 04:19 PM	#4
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Found in flywheel housing I have often, like a great many others I am sure, wondered where my lost bolts go. I am sure many of us have had occasion when a bolt dropped and we spent hours looking for it - never to find it. Thank you Dick Steinkamp, for letting us know where all of our lost bolts went.

11-14-2016, 04:29 PM	#6
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Found in flywheel housing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yea the funky tabed washers are supposed to be bent up around the thin head bolts preventing them from backing out - doesnt do much good when they break off though haha. That one long one almost looks like a bearing shim but could be a pressed and rolled bendix washer too (think of those penny smashing machines or penny on RR tracks) yea chatter clutch can also be caused by contaminated lining or as you found out worn out lining. Definitely check the alignment before putting everything back together! __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

11-14-2016, 06:12 PM	#8
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,127	Re: Found in flywheel housing At lease that mechanic was persistent 5 times before he got it right or gave up :-)

11-14-2016, 07:23 PM	#10
marty in Ohio Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Elyria, Ohio Posts: 755	Re: Found in flywheel housing They say, on this site, that you can retrieve these pieces with magnets and really gooey grease, but I'm not that brave. I'm glad to see that Dick proved that the car will still run with these pieces still in there somewhere. I think I may have one in there. Marty

11-14-2016, 08:41 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Found in flywheel housing The early Bendix springs needed the shims Bob shows in #7. Without the shims the bolts can be bent or broke, as your collection of hardware shows. Later the end coil on each end of the spring was formed to a slightly smaller diameter so the shims were no longer needed.

11-14-2016, 09:44 PM	#12
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Found in flywheel housing Well, at least what you guys have found after separating the bellhousing from the flywheel housing wasn't still ALIVE!!! That gawd-awful Model A I am working on for an older friend was leaking oil badly from the rear of the engine and from both ends of the transmission. Because the car was stored in a barn on a farm, the interior reeked of mice, as was to be expected. When I pulled the engine and tranny the FIRST time and separated the bellhousing from the flywheel housing, a bunch of oil and transmission lube oozed out onto my garage floor, plus some gunk on the bottom of the bellhousing that I scooped out by gloved hand. As I was wiping my hands, I noticed that there was movement in the pile of that oily, black crud on the floor. Yes, I admit it: I was startled! Whoever heard of broken starter drive bolts and cotter pins found inside a flywheel housing moving on their own? Looking closer at the movement amid the gooey mess was a mouse in a fetal position, completely covered with oil. It was clearly in its death throes, so I helped it along with a hammer. 'Didn't want to do it, but I am not into performing heroic medical feats on rodents to save their lives. I think the ghost of that mouse has come back to haunt me and make my life miserable. Why else would I be having so much trouble with the engine/transmission repairs? 'Sounds like a logical explanation, doesn't it? Marshall

11-14-2016, 10:18 PM	#13
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Found in flywheel housing When I pulled my 29 down I found something like 10 bendix bolts and washers glued in the muck at the bottom. Had 'em in a plastic bag for showing what I found, thru them out after a while.

11-15-2016, 02:03 AM	#14
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Found in flywheel housing RedModel T - ". . . thru them out after a while. " ----------------------------- Next time . . . . don't throw them out ! I am sure that some fellow FORD BARN member has them missing . . . from the bottom of his Bell Housing ! It is true - I have heard of some Model A owners who are missing these important 'weight adjustment' bolts from their housing.

11-15-2016, 09:24 AM	#15
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Found in flywheel housing lol

11-15-2016, 10:57 AM	#17
Tacoma Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 1,025	Re: Found in flywheel housing Keep lookin......lost socks must be in there too. LMAO

11-15-2016, 01:14 PM	#20
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Found in flywheel housing And while you are looking for 'lost stuff', keep a sharp look-out for both my mind and my memory !

11-15-2016, 03:13 PM	#21
Art Newland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Lynden, WA Posts: 1,564	Re: Found in flywheel housing Jimmy Hoffa?

11-15-2016, 04:53 PM	#23
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Found in flywheel housing "Murdered to death"???? No, I KILLED him to death! It was him or me! The mouse was quite small, otherwise it wouldn't have been able to crawl up into the bellhousing through the wishbone ball cavity. What other pathway was there besides possibly slipping through one of the two air slots in the clutch inspection plate on top of the bellhousing? Cute little critter, he was. But - SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!!! Mouse-Be-Gone! Plenty of his relatives probably still left inside the headliner and in the seats. I think I'll keep my BFH handy as I continue working on the car. Marshall