8BA with 59A water pumps pics?

[38 coupe]

Does anyone have pictures of an 8BA motor converted to the 37-48 water pumps? I am going to get to help my father do this, and would like to see some pictures. We are doing this to get the best cooling flathead motor we can for dad's 32. I know we will have to put pipe plugs in the top water pump passages in the block.

The plan so far is:
53 block, heads, intake, truck pan and bell housing
59A cam, generator, crank pulley, water pumps
crab distributor and 2 bolt timing cover

Is there anything I missed?

[Mart]

You will need to use ball bearing type water pumps - the 8BA does not have the oil feed to the water pumps that the original bushed type pump needs.
Mart.

[bobscogin]

I think there's a sleeve on the front of the 8BA crank that has to be removed if you use the 59A crank pulley.

Bob

[Charlie ny]

'38,
As Mart says the crank spacer must go..you'll need the early cam
and crank gears which thrust the cam towards the front cover. Do not
fear using a generator mounted fan...we can set you up with a pulley
to do this....2 brush gen with fan mount pulley. Not long ago I did this
swap into a '34 and the toughest part was finding a pulley for the fan....
now I make them.
Charlie ny

[bobscogin]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

'38,
.you'll need the early cam
and crank gears which thrust the cam towards the front cover.

Don't the early gears thrust the cam towards the block? I thought the 8BA gears were pitched to thrust against the front cover?

Bob

[Zeke...PA]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here is mine with 59A cam and timing gears, 21A dist, 51 Merc intake, Rochester 2GC carb, and 37-48 pumps. Zeke

[Ol' Ron]

Yes this works quite well with the new style water pumps with internal seals. It id unnecessary to change timing gears. Tjis is another myth that keeps perpetuating it's self buy those that have no factual reason why. Sorry Charlie.

[bobscogin]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

It id unnecessary to change timing gears. Tjis is another myth that keeps perpetuating it's self buy those that have no factual reason why. Sorry Charlie.

I'm on my first flathead build and have a lot to learn. I'm building a '42 Mercury motor with 21A distributor and the cam thrust towards the block. In the 8BA, the cam thrust toward the timing cover, and the cover has a thrust surface built in. Correct so far? Now, if I use an early timing cover with the 8 BA gears which puts the thrust forward, what accepts the thrust? Seems as if it would transfer it to the distributor shaft since the front cover has a hole through it where the distributor drives? If not, what limits it?

Bob

[Ol' Ron]

The front cover had a thrust surface as well, and in fact a very large one. When installing a cam you should check the amount of cam thrust there is. Just what do you think stops the cam from coming forward on decoloration.
The distributor tang that's driven by the cam has more than enough clearance from bottoming out in the cam. You have to understand how things work. Now if someone will explain to me where I'm wrong, I will apologize. Unfortunately there are allot of engines out there with the WRONG gears in it

[rotorwrench]

Your right Ol' Ron, the only reason Ford changed was just for the Load-A-Matic distributor. If you change back to a front mount type, either set of gears will work. 8BA types are as good as any.

Kerby

[Charlie ny]

Bob and Ron,
Yep I messed up the pre 8bas thrust to the block...must
be a brain freeze here. I certainly trust what you say Ron but just the
same I'd change the gears.
Thanks for the heads up!
Charlie ny

[Ol' Ron]

The only reason I mentioned this is because changing the crank gear with the engine assembled is a real Bi--h, when it's unnecessary.
I also disagree with the statement that it's necessary to change the gears for the load a matic dist. The gears are a non issue. regardless og what distributor you use. Cam backlash should be .004-6" tell me how much that is going to affect timing.

[Karl Wolf]

There are 49-53 truck water pumps that have provision for the water bypass, that have the engine mount tabs as part of the water pump... And run the fan belt at the close to the block configuation... Karl

[38 coupe]

Thanks for everyone's replys.

As far as timing gears go, my memory is that Ford switched the direction of the thrust after bringing out the 8BA. The early 49 passenger car motors and the early 48 pickup motors had the same gears as the 59A motors, I think.

Between my dad and myself, we have generator options covered. We will probably run a 3 brush unit with the Fun Projects regulator that looks like a cut out.

Karl -I have never seen a set of pumps like that. I'd love to have a set though. Since it is a mostly original 32, we actually don't need the water pump motor mount ears. The stock 32 motor mount attaches to the four bolt holes on the front of the block on either side of the crank pulley (1953 truck went back to this).

I wonder how expensive it would be to have a set of pulleys made to move the belt location back with 8BA pumps?

[rotorwrench]

I've seen pictures of pulleys that were made like a 50/51 Mercury fan pulley with more offset to the rear but they were likely custom. There is an outfit that makes a serpentine conversion for flatheads but it looks too modern and billet for me.

On the cam gears, I think FoMoCo reversed the bevel on them just to control the backlash on the late type load-a-matic type distributors a little better. As far as having to use that combination, Ron is probably right. It wouldn't alter the timeing if it were adjusted for whatever gears or distributor it had. Timeing would change a negligible amount when you back off the throttle if you have a manual transmission without overdrive and the cam gear thrust faces are in good condition.

Kerby

[sturgis 39]

I think the circle track racers use electric water pumps. I probably would not go this way but I thought about it. Just get rid of the pulleys all together and run one fan built to the generator. I am sure they are 12 volts and I have no idea of the amps. You probably could not use the older distributor or dizzy like some people like to call them, because the belt might rub on them.

[franksford]

Send me your email address and i will send pictures of mine. Frank [email protected]