The Ford Barn

big job · 03-04-2015, 06:58 AM

With 50yrs of engine machining this is embarrassing. Installed Federal
cam bearings with KRW tooling. New Genuine Ford cam we had in stock
from the dealer back when. Installed the cam with Ford cam lube ok it turns
by hand freely but when you stop, you need a bar to get it spinning again
(by hand) We have blued the cam no highs or lows. We have checked
cam on a lathe with test indicator-perfect, we have checked block cam
bore alignment again perfect bearing clearance right on spec. We have
run it in with a 1/2 drill along with dripping oil down the mains. The oil
pump idler is free and also new. When the drill stops, again its pry bar
time again then will turn by hand freely. Any thoughts; Also the shop is
kept at 65 degrees at night. This is a first, also its a std EAB that is perfect
as perfect can be. Although there is always a reason for a problem, but
this one won't fly with me. We built up 100's of these when flatheads were
the king on oval racing, so, been there, but not this. I'm itchy about
using that helper stuff, i have never have no one has it round here anyway.

sam

saltracer · 03-04-2015, 07:03 AM

Do you have another cam, used maybe, to try? Then you would know if it is the cam or the block.

JWL · 03-04-2015, 07:13 AM

I have encountered similar problems when the end of the bearing swelled(deformed very slightly) when contacted by the installation tooling. A precision dial bore gauge can be used, with careful manipulation, to determine status at the end where the camshaft enters the bearings. It will probably be ok without adjustments but I use a lightly tapered mandrel to correct.

big job · 03-04-2015, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltracer

Do you have another cam, used maybe, to try? Then you would know if it is the cam or the block.

thanks we tried the original cam same thing. maybe another set of bearings
but we cant find anything wrong with these and we do not use over the
pond parts just US name brand.....sam

51 MERC-CT · 03-04-2015, 07:47 AM

Have you checked with the oil pump idler removed?

LOWRIDER · 03-04-2015, 07:51 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

This might be apples to oranges but the last Yblock I built the cam was a bit tight turning in the block. Problem ended up being a small burr in the block where the cam bearing was installed.

motordr · 03-04-2015, 07:57 AM

Remove the oil pump and see what happens.

big job · 03-04-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWRIDER

This might be apples to oranges but the last Yblock I built the cam was a bit tight turning in the block. Problem ended up being a small burr in the block where the cam bearing was installed.

I thank all but we lightly hone the block first prior install, but the problem
is a nice free by hand spin then stop then it wont turn unless pry bar then
spins freely again is that clear as mud? not being wise guy, but it aint
clear as mud to me. I know my mics/measuring, this is annoying me.

Next thought is, after valve train installed "with this tight start; not good
for the cam fibre gear plus oil pump load" yes / no I know lowrider
we did 3 272's Y and one 332 Y truck Lincoln last year. uggg

I shall conquer this

big job · 03-04-2015, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motordr

Remove the oil pump and see what happens.

Nope no oil pump, no fuel push rod no oil pump idler gear good thoughts
motordr

big job · 03-04-2015, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Have you checked with the oil pump idler removed?

Yes sir first thing we did thanks

scooder · 03-04-2015, 08:20 AM

After you've pry bared it, are there any shiny bits on the bearings?
Martin.

big job · 03-04-2015, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWL

I have encountered similar problems when the end of the bearing swelled(deformed very slightly) when contacted by the installation tooling. A precision dial bore gauge can be used, with careful manipulation, to determine status at the end where the camshaft enters the bearings. It will probably be ok without adjustments but I use a lightly tapered mandrel to correct.

Yes you are correct we have done that= I thank you for the concern ; problem
is we cannot find anything wrong-but somethings wrong Its not my engine
thinking if mine = wrap it up run it and then ?
(aint got the heart flatheads are my purrring cats)

Mike51Merc · 03-04-2015, 08:25 AM

Here's just another spitball:
When the cam is in motion its being thrust by the oil pump idler into a certain position. When it stops turning, it relaxes into a different (Fore/Aft) position. That relaxed position has a burr or other defect on one (or more) cam bearings.

Have you tried spinning it backwards with a reverseable drill?

motordr · 03-04-2015, 08:26 AM

Fuel pump bushing interference? Or Sounds like a thrust type hang up, is the front bushing flush with the block?

big job · 03-04-2015, 08:33 AM

Along with our cam situation, our engines are mainly V8 T's and A's
come out the door totally silent. So munch as I can hear the cam
clicking on the points and or fan belts. Proof; my wife wiped out
a starter cause she could not hear it running thats my stamp of
appoval..

s d pine & sons

we do 350's 337's 446's husdons chrysler marine too

Fordestes · 03-04-2015, 09:47 AM

Clean off the bearings and cam,use a little lay out fluid on bearig surface move the cam front to back and see if there is a high spot or tapered area, I seen one case where the bearing bore had a small burr left from removing the old bearings causing the new bushing to form a conical shape toward the rear and when the cam thrust to the rear a substantial drag was present, like Mke 51 Merc said.

flathead48 · 03-04-2015, 09:54 AM

Not a great mechanic but could the cam have a slight warp to it?

Ronnie · 03-04-2015, 10:21 AM

Do you have the same results if you install cam and then push it 1/2 way out and observe the tight spot as being the same.

R

rotorwrench · 03-04-2015, 10:41 AM

My guess would be that one of the bearings is off center on the bearing ID. This would cause an alignment problem that would be hard to find. Even though manufactured in the USA, they can make mistakes too.

Bored&Stroked · 03-04-2015, 10:49 AM

I've seen a few things like this - tends to be something in the bearings, dragging on the cam journals. Something is malformed . . . someplace . . . and most likely a bearing.

I'd clean the heck out of everything and really inspect the bearings - there has to be a shiny spot on at least one of them.

You could try a bit of die-chem on the cam journals - then see where it rubs off.

Also, maybe you first try it with just 2 of the 3 journals in the bearings . . . any binding yet? Then put the cam all the way in.

You'll find it - just need to look closer!

03-04-2015, 07:03 AM	#2
saltracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Lafayette, La. Posts: 100	Re: Cam embarrassment Do you have another cam, used maybe, to try? Then you would know if it is the cam or the block.

03-04-2015, 07:13 AM	#3
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Cam embarrassment I have encountered similar problems when the end of the bearing swelled(deformed very slightly) when contacted by the installation tooling. A precision dial bore gauge can be used, with careful manipulation, to determine status at the end where the camshaft enters the bearings. It will probably be ok without adjustments but I use a lightly tapered mandrel to correct.

03-04-2015, 07:47 AM	#5
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Cam embarrassment Have you checked with the oil pump idler removed? __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

03-04-2015, 07:51 AM	#6
LOWRIDER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kingman Az. 86409 Posts: 419	Re: Cam embarrassment Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) This might be apples to oranges but the last Yblock I built the cam was a bit tight turning in the block. Problem ended up being a small burr in the block where the cam bearing was installed. __________________ Dan Kingman Az. 86409

03-04-2015, 07:57 AM	#7
motordr Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Beamsville,Ontario,Canada Posts: 485	Re: Cam embarrassment Remove the oil pump and see what happens.

03-04-2015, 08:20 AM	#11
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Cam embarrassment After you've pry bared it, are there any shiny bits on the bearings? Martin.

03-04-2015, 08:25 AM	#13
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: Cam embarrassment Here's just another spitball: When the cam is in motion its being thrust by the oil pump idler into a certain position. When it stops turning, it relaxes into a different (Fore/Aft) position. That relaxed position has a burr or other defect on one (or more) cam bearings. Have you tried spinning it backwards with a reverseable drill?

03-04-2015, 08:26 AM	#14
motordr Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Beamsville,Ontario,Canada Posts: 485	Re: Cam embarrassment Fuel pump bushing interference? Or Sounds like a thrust type hang up, is the front bushing flush with the block?

03-04-2015, 08:33 AM	#15
big job Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Dighton, Mass Posts: 1,230	Quality control Along with our cam situation, our engines are mainly V8 T's and A's come out the door totally silent. So munch as I can hear the cam clicking on the points and or fan belts. Proof; my wife wiped out a starter cause she could not hear it running thats my stamp of appoval.. s d pine & sons we do 350's 337's 446's husdons chrysler marine too

03-04-2015, 09:47 AM	#16
Fordestes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 887	Re: Cam embarrassment Clean off the bearings and cam,use a little lay out fluid on bearig surface move the cam front to back and see if there is a high spot or tapered area, I seen one case where the bearing bore had a small burr left from removing the old bearings causing the new bushing to form a conical shape toward the rear and when the cam thrust to the rear a substantial drag was present, like Mke 51 Merc said.

03-04-2015, 09:54 AM	#17
flathead48 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,111	Re: Cam embarrassment Not a great mechanic but could the cam have a slight warp to it?

03-04-2015, 10:21 AM	#18
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: Cam embarrassment Do you have the same results if you install cam and then push it 1/2 way out and observe the tight spot as being the same. R

03-04-2015, 10:41 AM	#19
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,466	Re: Cam embarrassment My guess would be that one of the bearings is off center on the bearing ID. This would cause an alignment problem that would be hard to find. Even though manufactured in the USA, they can make mistakes too.

03-04-2015, 10:49 AM	#20
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,109	Re: Cam embarrassment I've seen a few things like this - tends to be something in the bearings, dragging on the cam journals. Something is malformed . . . someplace . . . and most likely a bearing. I'd clean the heck out of everything and really inspect the bearings - there has to be a shiny spot on at least one of them. You could try a bit of die-chem on the cam journals - then see where it rubs off. Also, maybe you first try it with just 2 of the 3 journals in the bearings . . . any binding yet? Then put the cam all the way in. You'll find it - just need to look closer!