Picture request

[lsr490]

Good morning,
I've searched high and low on the Internet with no success.
So I'm asking for some collaborative help here. Could someone please post a picture with dimensions (tape measure ) of the back of a 223 block and a Y block, block or bellhousing will work? This is the collaborative part, I realize it will probably require more than one member to post.
Thanks so much

[dmsfrr]

Are you trying to mix and match something?
Someone here may already have the answer you need.

[lsr490]

Yes,
Y block too hundred series tractor, 223 is a direct fit, but I know the bellhousing is different between the "I's" and the "Y's".
Thanks
Ps if it's on the Web I missed it, and believe I've been to the end more than once

[Oldmics]

I have "I" books from that era if those would be of any assistance.

Oldmics

[lsr490]

Oldmics,
What would really be nice if someone actually had B/P dimensions for both blocks.
Thanks,
Bill

[dmsfrr]

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Photo of the back side of a '56 292.
I hope you can read the dimensions since the picture shrinks when uploaded.
The measurements are all center to center of the hole or locating pin. The bolt hole at far left center (green arrow) is not used with the automatic bell-housing I have.
.

[Oldmics]

That is an excellent "Y Block" pictorial.

Thanks

Oldmics

[lsr490]

dmsfrr,
That's awesome we're halfway there.
Thanks

[Oldmics]

You should probably post this request over on the Y Blocks Forever site.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Default.aspx

Theres a bunch of good,knowledgeable and helpful folks over there that know about these things.

Oldmics

[lsr490]

Ok thanks,
But lets not kill this tread yet I'm a member here.

[Daves55Sedan]

I had to laugh when I saw the headline "picture request". It immediately made me think of dmsfrr, because he always posts the best pictures to illustrate the issue. I knew that if I picked it to read, he would have something in there for you and sure enough. I am still laughing and telling myself....see, I told ya so.

[Daves55Sedan]

I could shoot ya a pic of the back of a 223, but you don't say what you want measurements of...from where to where???
If you are trying to determine if you can use a Y-block with a 223 bellhousing, sorry it wont work, regardless of manual or Ford-O-Matic.
The I-block has 11 inch clutch (or converter) and Y-block has 12 inch cluch (or converter), thus the Y-block bellhousing is bigger than the I-block.

[lsr490]

Dave,
I'm trying to gather information to see what an adapter plate between an "I" block and an "Y" would look like(because the bellhousing are different.). If you could duplicate dmsffr picture on a 223 that would be great.
Thanks

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by lsr490

Dave,
I'm trying to gather information to see what an adapter plate between an "I" block and an "Y" would look like(because the bellhousing are different.).
Thanks

Which engine are you thinking of connecting to what transmission?
Chances are someone here already knows if it's possible,
if an adapter is or was made and where to look for it.

.

[lsr490]

"Y" block too 223 bellhousing

[Oldmics]

Interestingly the bell housing on the 223 does not bolt directly to the engine block.

There is an engine plate between the block and the bell housing.

Listed as part# EAA-7007-A.

The bell housing bolts to the plate assembly. The plate creates a wider spread to attach to then the narrow engine block.

Might want to see if that plate can be found as it will give you both the block attachment points as well as the bell housing attachment points.

Oldmics

[lsr490]

I hate to sound redundant.....any pictures?

[Daves55Sedan]

Seems like I attached photos here before but don't remember how I did it. Anyways, your I-block 6 bolt-holes are at a 8 inch radius from the center of the crankshaft. There are two engine bolts at the top and two at the bottom. The top two bolts are 5-1/2 inches apart and equidistant from the centerline of the crankshaft. The bottom two holes are 15-1/2 inches apart and equidistant from the centerline of the crankshaft. The rear crankshaft hub is 4-1/8" in diameter. There are two alignment pins for the "starter plate", one is 1-1/4" to the left of the right-hand top engine bolt. The other one is 3/4 inch above the bottom engine bolt on the driver side.

[Daves55Sedan]

I'm still really not getting this. You have a tractor with no drivetrain at all? You have a tractor with a 223 manual trans with no engine but you want to install a Y-block?
If you can get a Y-block, can't you also just get a clutch and bellhousing with that engine, then take off the 223 clutch and bellhousing. Will the Y-block even fit in the tractor frame? Have you considered modifications or adjustments needed to the clutch linkage? Motor mounts?

[lsr490]

Dave,
There is an old saying that a picture is worth a thousand word, all I’m looking for is the former.
I have three running Hundred series tractors, one of which I thought would be cool with a V8 (not any V8, but a “Y” block). It has been done plenty of time with a flatheads http://www.oldfordtractors.com/funk.htm , since the tractor 4 cylinder and the 223 block bolt pattern are the same, I was trying to get a physical since of the difference between the “I” and “Y” block. The intent of this post was simple pictures and measurements for two reasons 1) it’s a pain in the ass to spilt a running tractor just for measurements 2)I was willing to bet someone on this forum has one of the two motors mentioned on a garage floor or stand, a tape measure, and some sort of camera capable of posting to this forum.

Hope this ads more clarity
Again Thanks to all

[Daves55Sedan]

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...pscjtiofca.jpg

This is the back of a 223 I-block engine. Note the 4 engine to bellhousing boltholes and the two alignment pins

[Daves55Sedan]

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaxnxtj4t.jpg

This is a "starter plate for a 215 I-block 6 for a Ford-O-matic. It has same bolt pattern as the 223. The starter plate for an engine used with manual transmission is cut-off below the red line. The manual trans has its own separate stamped metal flywheel inspection plate on the bottom instead of this.

[Daves55Sedan]

If you were going to make your own adaptor plate, it would be best to first know what the radius is from the crankshaft of the Y-block to the engine-bellhousing mounting bolts as a starting point. Knowing that the radius is 8 inches for the I-block, you can see that you will have two radii layed out on a sheet (the smaller radius being the I-block and the larger being the Y-block. Then you can lay out your bolt hole pattern.
How would the starter work though? You have a manual trans with a smaller flywheel than that used for the Y-block. Will it even be possible to mount the starter so that the starter Bendix touches the flywheel gearteeth ? need to closely look at cast iron ribbing and bumpouts at the back of the Y-block to make sure that a mounting bolt for the manual trans bellhousing doesn't hit the ribbing before driving the bolt home. All kinds of things to think about !

[lsr490]

Dave,
Thanks for the pictures, I believe I have all info I need.
For what it’s worth Pat @ http://www.wilcap.com/webdoc8.html is a great guy to talk with, he just doesn’t any 223 dimensions but, was a great resource on pattern making and flywheel info.
Again thanks
Ps if I do pursue this I’ll be sure to post some pics

[lsr490]

Thanks for everyone's help.
There is a practical reason this has never happened. Even though the 4 cylinder shares similar architecture with the "Y" block the starter on the tractor goes where the oil pump and filter are on the "Y" block no work around. I'm sure I'll have another hair brained idea before the end of the day.
Thanks again and have a good day