Model A Wheel Alignment

[Model A Ron]

Hey Everyone
I know people use different methods to adjust the toe on the Model A. Looking for people to share what procedure they use. I adjusted the draglink / tie rod inserts so I think it's best I do an alignment before taking her out.

Thanks
Ron

[Ruth]

Paul Shinn has a video on YouTube that's pretty good. https://youtu.be/LdNb-NU9vf0

[Ruth]

Another recent thread on wheel alignment. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...27#post1993027

[Model A Ron]

At what position on the front and back of the tires do you measure for toe? would it be 9 in the front of the tire and 3 in the back? I think the toe is 1/16 to 3/32.

[katy]

One should measure at the same height, front and back. I usually try and get 1/2 way up the wheel.

[Model A Ron]

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Originally Posted by katy

One should measure at the same height, front and back. I usually try and get 1/2 way up the wheel.

I know a little play in the wheel is normal but if the tow is off can that cause the car to drift? I have been working on my steering wheel play and I got more than half of it out but I still have a few inches. Hope the alignment helps her track straight down the road.

Ron

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

FordWanted 6 inches up. If you measure higher than that changes the amount of toe in because of the wheels canted out words at the top. I think the later V-8’s had it done in a different spot and it was a different toe in. That V8 part is off the top my head.

[nkaminar]

Ron, keep working on your play in the steering wheel. You should strive to have about 1/4 inch play in the wheel.

Check the caster as than can cause the car to drift. If it is off, check the ball and sockets at the end of the front wishbone.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Ron, keep working on your play in the steering wheel. You should strive to have about 1/4 inch play in the wheel.

Check the caster as than can cause the car to drift. If it is off, check the ball and sockets at the end of the front wishbone.

Anyone with a 7 Tooth get less that 2'' of wheel play? My front end has less than 500 miles on it and I adjusted all play out of the 7 tooth and I still have 2 inches. Had almost 6 before I started to adjust. Most of my play was poorly adjusted inserts.

Ron

[Model A Ron]

I did a quick check with a tape measure and I have .25'' tow out. I think this may be why my car wants to go left and right anytime I get over 30mph. Has anyone run into a tow out condition like this and how was your car responding on the road? I need to get a better measurement and get it to 1/16 to 3/32 tow in.

Ron

[katy]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I did a quick check with a tape measure and I have .25'' tow out. I think this may be why my car wants to go left and right anytime I get over 30mph. Ron

You got it. If you run the flat of your hand over the tread you'll feel it feathered not flat.

The fronts of the wheels tend to push apart when the car is moving forward, therefore any time the toe-in (or out) is measured or adjusted one should push the fronts of the wheels apart so as to remove any possible slack.

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I did a quick check with a tape measure and I have .25'' tow out. I think this may be why my car wants to go left and right anytime I get over 30mph. Has anyone run into a tow out condition like this and how was your car responding on the road? I need to get a better measurement and get it to 1/16 to 3/32 tow in.

Ron

There's and book that everyone should have, Ford Service Manual, it's in a hard back yellow cover sold by the A venders! Measure 6 inches up from the ground on the tire sidewall, front and back.
Using a toe gauge..... 1/16 toe in +- 1/32.... So 1/32 to 3/32, 6 inches above the ground on the inside of the tires

[Model A Ron]

I went up 6'' with an adjustable rod. Set the rod to just slip by the the raised rubber ring on the inside of the tire and then adjusted the back. When I started I had more than 1/2'' of negative toe and now I have 3/32 positive toe. I tightened everything up but did not put the pins back in as I want to take a test drive first when the rain stops.

Is it better to be on the high side at 3/32 or should I go and set it to 1/16? My car was all over the road once I hit 30 and it was a constant left right as I hit the grooves in the road but that was with a negative 1/2''. Sure hope she can go straight now lol

Thanks
Ron

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

Anyone with a 7 Tooth get less that 2'' of wheel play? My front end has less than 500 miles on it and I adjusted all play out of the 7 tooth and I still have 2 inches. Had almost 6 before I started to adjust. Most of my play was poorly adjusted inserts.

Ron, the simple answer to your question is Yes.

As for "less than 500 miles", based on your toe-in findings alone, I would take nothing for granted on the condition of all the steering components. In this day & time, I am telling everyone that for other motorist's safety reason alone, if someone is unfamiliar (-doesn't have actual Model-A experience) with Brakes and Steering, it would be most prudent to find a mentor who has experience that can help you.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ron, the simple answer to your question is Yes.

As for "less than 500 miles", based on your toe-in findings alone, I would take nothing for granted on the condition of all the steering components. In this day & time, I am telling everyone that for other motorist's safety reason alone, if someone is unfamiliar (-doesn't have actual Model-A experience) with Brakes and Steering, it would be most prudent to find a mentor who has experience that can help you.

Brent
Model A's are new to me but I have been working on classic cars for over 30 years. My car was a 10 year old body off restoration or at least that what I was told by the seller however the PO could no longer drive for the past 7 years. I noticed the car would drift left and right when going over 30 mpg so I started with looking and adjusting all front end inserts. They were a bit loose but the inserts and balls looked new. I then looked at the 7 tooth and adjusted the up down play by removing several shims and the side to side play with the screw and jam nut on the side cover. When I had the cover off the only play I could see was a bit between the worm gear and stator but it was not much. Then I looked at the alignment and found what I thing was the biggest issue with over 1/2" negative tow.

I had a fellow club member help me with a brake adjustment and the car stopes very well and the brakes and cast iron drums look new as well. All fluids have been changed so I think I am good to go. Did I missing anything?

Thanks
Ron

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

Brent
Model A's are now to me but I have been working on classic cars for over 30 years. My car was a 10 year old body off restoration however the PO could no longer drive for the past 7 years and the car had 286 miles when I got it. I noticed the car would drift left and right when going over 30 mpg so I started with looking and adjusting all front end inserts. They were a bit loose but the inserts and balls looked new. I then looked at the 7 tooth and adjusted the up down play by removing sever shims and the side to side play with the screw and jam nut on the side cover. When I had the cover off the only play I could see was a bit between the worm gear and stator but it was not much. Then I looked at the alignment and found what I thing was the biggest issue with over 1/2" negative tow.

I have a fellow club member help me with a brake adjustment and the car stopes very well and the brakes and cast iron drums look new as well. All fluids have been changed so I think I am good to go. Did I missing anything?

Thanks
Ron

Can't speak for Brent, but I think his point might have been that you're not going to get enough wear on the car in 286 miles to cause toe-out and badly-adjusted steering. If those are present, it means they were done wrong at mile zero by whoever restored it. Thus you shouldn't assume that any other parts of the suspension were done properly and should take time to validate everything.

This is all part of a long-running theme on this board that many "restorations" neglect the mechanical elements, resulting in a car that looks fantastic and drives like a drunk cow.

[Model A Ron]

I understand as my car drove like a drunk cow and after seeing all the new parts it's fair to say it was off since mile 0.00.

Even my wheel bearings were a bit loose. I took them out and they looked new so I repacked them and installed them properly. I have a feeling I will be sorting things out for a bit.

Ron

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

Anyone with a 7 Tooth get less that 2'' of wheel play? My front end has less than 500 miles on it and I adjusted all play out of the 7 tooth and I still have 2 inches. Had almost 6 before I started to adjust. Most of my play was poorly adjusted inserts.

Ron

For comparison, Ron, this link goes to a four-second video I made showing the play in my 7-tooth box. This is with all the shims adjusted, pitman arm connected, etc., so this is the full amount of play from the wheel to the wheels. Far as I know, this amount of play is normal. A pro rebuilder might be able to do better.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/en94ljau5t...0play.mov?dl=0

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

For comparison, Ron, this link goes to a four-second video I made showing the play in my 7-tooth box. This is with all the shims adjusted, pitman arm connected, etc., so this is the full amount of play from the wheel to the wheels. Far as I know, this amount of play is normal. A pro rebuilder might be able to do better.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/en94ljau5t...0play.mov?dl=0

I take it you did a full rebuild with new worm and stator? This looks great to me. I kept the box in the car and adjusted the shims and the jam nut screw the best I could. When the cover was off I could see a bit of play in the worm and the stator but I could not overcome this with adjustment and this is what is causing my 2'' of wheel play.

I did have over 1/2'' negative tow and this is what was causing my left right shift when driving. I adjusted the tow to 1/16 positive tow at 6' up and the car drives just fine. I still feel my 2'' of play in the wheel from the 7 tooth but I can deal with that as the car is not trying to steer it's self.

Thanks for the video and I think you did a good job with your box

Ron

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I take it you did a full rebuild with new worm and stator? This looks great to me. I kept the box in the car and adjusted the shims and the jam nut screw the best I could. When the cover was off I could see a bit of play in the worm and the stator but I could not overcome this with adjustment and this is what is causing my 2'' of wheel play.

I think you mean "sector" . Yes, rebuilt by the guy I emailed you about, except I just this weekend re-did the shims.

[Model A Ron]

Sector......not sure what I was thinking lol Regardless you have a very tight 7 tooth. I have looked at several seven toot cars from fellow club members and I can say yours is tighter than any I have seen.

Ron

[daren007]

Check your castor.

[kawagumby]

I installed a rebuilt F-100 steering box a few hundred miles ago. Since then the steering degenerated some, so I checked and adjusted the toe-in to spec. It helped the wandering but I still had too much steering wheel play. So...I pulled the cotter key from the pitman arm bolt and forced the castle nut down to the next hole. I was surprised at being able to do that since I had torqued that puppy pretty well the first time. The thing is, there is some tooth set-in at that connection and as such, even if it is just a tiny amount (un-discernible by feel) it is magnified by the steering link geometry. Heavily tightening that clamp provided the most change and brought the steering-wheel play into a normal range.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by daren007

Check your castor.

How Caster is not adjustable to the best of my knowledge?

[daren007]

A bent axle will cause your car to pull left or right just how much depends on how much the axle is bent. Check your castor at each king pin. You can find info on how to do this on this sight.one side may be spot on but the other slightly off. Slightly is enough for the car to pull. If that’s the problem straighten the axle or replace it.

[whirnot]

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When checking toe in, I prefer to check the front, 6 inches up, and then roll the car so that point is 6 inches up at the rear. This will take slightly out of true wheels out of the equation, since you are measuring at the same points. If not rolling the car, you really need to jack the car up first and scribe a centerline on each tire, to measure from.

[German guy]

Any idea where I can buy one?

[Rob Doe]

A saying that comes to mind often: "The devil is in the details, guyz".

Our coupe rolls straight and steers and stops as it should. Yet, there is what appears to the eye as about 3/4" play in the steering wheel when the car is on the ground. If I jack the car up, with a careful eye, I can see the wheels move a bit with less than the 3/4" movement, probably half that much. Once I caught on to this, (when I worked on the front end) I can also see it when traveling down a smooth road.

I can only hypothesize a reason, and that is that the tires give a little more as the turn is initiated???

I'm not familiar with the 7 tooth box, but if one can see play when looking at the sector and worm and cannot adjust that out, I doubt you'll get down to the amount of play that a professional's overhaul would achieve. I have read that the worm is intentionally designed with increasing gap in the worm gear as it leaves dead center and approaches the worm's ends. This is to prevent binding when at maximum turning radii???

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by German guy

Any idea where I can buy one?

Any idea about buying 'one what'? You are responding to a 2½ year old post.

[Bob Bidonde]

I bought the alignment tool and do alignments the same as Paul Shinn shows in his video.