The Ford Barn

Goldfinch28 · 12-02-2015, 03:21 PM

I need your help identifying which Powerhouse generator that I have. I think mine is a P3. The cutout is mounted on top. Mine has three brushes but has pockets for five. Been sitting for over fifty years but I'd like to get it up and running. Do the two empty pockets go to ground? How would I know if the additional brushes are needed in the three brush generator? Did the three brush models have the pockets even if they weren't used? Will a new set of brushes for a five brush generator work in the three brush generator? Are they the same size? Like to bench test it without frying it...

Any help or input is appreciated.

Goldfinch28

Rowdy · 12-02-2015, 03:33 PM

If it has the pockets for 5 brushes then it takes a brush in all 5. There are 2 different brush sizes, 4 of one and one of the other. The three brush takes two different sizes of brushes also although they are different from the five brush. According to previous info on FB the amp draw of the field coils is different for the three brush. I have not figured out the best way to check the ones I have. I am sure Tom W will have more to add. Rod

CarlG · 12-02-2015, 03:34 PM

Louie, hopefully Tom W will chime in on this for you. He's da-man when it comes to all things Model A electrical.

al's28/33 · 12-02-2015, 06:09 PM

Yes Thomas where are you......

Ron in Quincy · 12-02-2015, 06:50 PM

The brush holder, location of the cutout, type of adjusting tension arm, if there is one, and mounting bracket, is what makes the difference of the 5 Brush Power House. The 3 brush came out later in 1928.

Ron

Goldfinch28 · 12-03-2015, 04:50 PM

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Here are some pictures of my Power House. I now think it must be a P2. Anyone ever seen one like this?

Thanks for your input.

FYI. Build date of my Special Coupe was Sept 14, 1928. I think this was the original generator on my A.

Pic 1 of 4

Goldfinch28 · 12-03-2015, 04:51 PM

Pic 2 of 4

Goldfinch28 · 12-03-2015, 04:53 PM

Pic 3 of 4

Goldfinch28 · 12-03-2015, 04:54 PM

Pic 4 of 4

Thanks!

Rowdy · 12-03-2015, 05:40 PM

Here is an old post with possibly some useful info. Rod

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=powerhouse

Tom Wesenberg · 12-03-2015, 11:21 PM

I would install the missing brushes, and as Rod said, it takes only the 5 brush set. Your generator is correct for 1928 Model A's, but will work for all years.

Do you have the tension strap and special bolt for mounting the strap?

Connect a 6 volt charger to the field windings to check them. Connect the + to the case, slip paper under the adjustable brush and connect the - to that brush wire. The battery charger should show about 1 1/2 amps draw for the 5 brush powerhouse. A 3 brush powerhouse has a few feet less wire, and should show about a 2 amp draw.

Your commutator is nice and thick, indicating someone hasn't foolishly cut away good material.

You are missing the two ground brushes, but could use one of the power brushes in the ground holder. Since it was made for 5 brushes, I like to use 5 brushes.

Ron in Quincy · 12-04-2015, 12:38 PM

I have a few extra original sets of brushes for 5 brush Power House generators. Make offer including shipping, PM me.

Also noticed your 5 brush charge adjustment is set a highest output. Moving the adjustment in the direction of rotation increases charge rate, opposite decreases charge rate. I have seen a 20-20 Ammeter arm indicator break off when engine starts with adjustment at high rate of charge I have one 5 brush that will put out 28 amps om high setting.

Ron

Goldfinch28 · 12-04-2015, 04:32 PM

I'm getting the tension arm, special bolt and a whole set of 5 brushes. Now I have another question as I continue down the path. Is this wear on the armature or is this as manufactured? If wear, should this be repaired/machined out to one consistent dimension? I am replacing the bearings while it is apart. Any other tips while I'm in here? I am planning to do the previously mentioned bench testing and will relay the results. Thanks for all the help!

With pic 1 of 2

Goldfinch28 · 12-04-2015, 04:34 PM

Pic 2 of 2. Back side of armature. FYI only.

Bob C · 12-04-2015, 04:37 PM

Well so much for the commutator being nice and thick.

Bob

Goldfinch28 · 12-04-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in Quincy

I have a few extra original sets of brushes for 5 brush Power House generators. Make offer including shipping, PM me.

Also noticed your 5 brush charge adjustment is set a highest output. Moving the adjustment in the direction of rotation increases charge rate, opposite decreases charge rate. I have seen a 20-20 Ammeter arm indicator break off when engine starts with adjustment at high rate of charge I have one 5 brush that will put out 28 amps om high setting.

Ron

Ron, I plan on setting the charge rate adjustment to cover "load" plus a little more for battery charging.

Rowdy · 12-04-2015, 04:40 PM

Definately looks really worn. Rod

Ron in Quincy · 12-04-2015, 05:12 PM

Your Armature needs to be turned smooth. You can cut between the segments using a fine hack saw blade; break the blade to make a fine point. With the present condition of your armature it will wear out new brushes and probable require more amps to motor the generator. I also like to use new sealed bearings instead of the old type bearings; it keeps the inside, once cleaned up, free of grease.

Ron

Goldfinch28 · 12-04-2015, 05:56 PM

Thanks! I'll head that direction and post the results.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-04-2015, 08:05 PM

That's one of the worst cases of a well worn commutator I've seen. Do you have a lathe to trim it level? You need a sharp bit to trim the copper without messing it up. After it's trimmed I use crocus to smooth the commutator, then use an Atlas hobby saw to undercut the insulation between the segments about .010" to .020" depth.

With new brushes and a smooth commutator that should last many years. Set the output to only an amp or two for most daytime driving. Short drives with a lot of starts will take more amps.

12-02-2015, 03:21 PM	#1
Goldfinch28 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 45	Powerhouse Generator identification? I need your help identifying which Powerhouse generator that I have. I think mine is a P3. The cutout is mounted on top. Mine has three brushes but has pockets for five. Been sitting for over fifty years but I'd like to get it up and running. Do the two empty pockets go to ground? How would I know if the additional brushes are needed in the three brush generator? Did the three brush models have the pockets even if they weren't used? Will a new set of brushes for a five brush generator work in the three brush generator? Are they the same size? Like to bench test it without frying it... Any help or input is appreciated. Goldfinch28

12-02-2015, 03:33 PM	#2
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? If it has the pockets for 5 brushes then it takes a brush in all 5. There are 2 different brush sizes, 4 of one and one of the other. The three brush takes two different sizes of brushes also although they are different from the five brush. According to previous info on FB the amp draw of the field coils is different for the three brush. I have not figured out the best way to check the ones I have. I am sure Tom W will have more to add. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

12-02-2015, 03:34 PM	#3
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Louie, hopefully Tom W will chime in on this for you. He's da-man when it comes to all things Model A electrical. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

12-02-2015, 06:09 PM	#4
al's28/33 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 1,591	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Yes Thomas where are you...... __________________ 1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)

12-02-2015, 06:50 PM	#5
Ron in Quincy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy, CA. Posts: 1,708	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? The brush holder, location of the cutout, type of adjusting tension arm, if there is one, and mounting bracket, is what makes the difference of the 5 Brush Power House. The 3 brush came out later in 1928. Ron

12-03-2015, 05:40 PM	#10
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Here is an old post with possibly some useful info. Rod http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=powerhouse __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

12-03-2015, 11:21 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? I would install the missing brushes, and as Rod said, it takes only the 5 brush set. Your generator is correct for 1928 Model A's, but will work for all years. Do you have the tension strap and special bolt for mounting the strap? Connect a 6 volt charger to the field windings to check them. Connect the + to the case, slip paper under the adjustable brush and connect the - to that brush wire. The battery charger should show about 1 1/2 amps draw for the 5 brush powerhouse. A 3 brush powerhouse has a few feet less wire, and should show about a 2 amp draw. Your commutator is nice and thick, indicating someone hasn't foolishly cut away good material. You are missing the two ground brushes, but could use one of the power brushes in the ground holder. Since it was made for 5 brushes, I like to use 5 brushes. Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 12-03-2015 at 11:27 PM.

12-04-2015, 12:38 PM	#12
Ron in Quincy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy, CA. Posts: 1,708	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? I have a few extra original sets of brushes for 5 brush Power House generators. Make offer including shipping, PM me. Also noticed your 5 brush charge adjustment is set a highest output. Moving the adjustment in the direction of rotation increases charge rate, opposite decreases charge rate. I have seen a 20-20 Ammeter arm indicator break off when engine starts with adjustment at high rate of charge I have one 5 brush that will put out 28 amps om high setting. Ron

12-04-2015, 04:37 PM	#15
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Well so much for the commutator being nice and thick. Bob

12-04-2015, 04:40 PM	#17
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Definately looks really worn. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

12-04-2015, 05:12 PM	#18
Ron in Quincy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy, CA. Posts: 1,708	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Your Armature needs to be turned smooth. You can cut between the segments using a fine hack saw blade; break the blade to make a fine point. With the present condition of your armature it will wear out new brushes and probable require more amps to motor the generator. I also like to use new sealed bearings instead of the old type bearings; it keeps the inside, once cleaned up, free of grease. Ron

12-04-2015, 05:56 PM	#19
Goldfinch28 Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 45	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? Thanks! I'll head that direction and post the results.

12-04-2015, 08:05 PM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Powerhouse Generator identification? That's one of the worst cases of a well worn commutator I've seen. Do you have a lathe to trim it level? You need a sharp bit to trim the copper without messing it up. After it's trimmed I use crocus to smooth the commutator, then use an Atlas hobby saw to undercut the insulation between the segments about .010" to .020" depth. With new brushes and a smooth commutator that should last many years. Set the output to only an amp or two for most daytime driving. Short drives with a lot of starts will take more amps.