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Old 04-19-2021, 03:26 PM   #321
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

norcallal this conversation reminds me of a similar one several years ago, of a restorer on here that built a '30 Roadster with a new Brookville body.

Most people including me, probably wouldn't spot the differences off hand with an original body.

They tell me they are pretty good!
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:48 AM   #322
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

It is absolutely disappointing to hear that this work had to be taken to China. I use a very competent US owned iron foundry in Mexico for a lot of our work and they are very good. Whether or not they are up to casting an engine block... Not sure. But did anyone try and contact Mesa Castings?
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:35 AM   #323
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Just a quick comment Terry Burtz attempted this project with several american foundry companies...very poor luck...I'll let Terry take it from here! Ernie in Arizona
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:50 AM   #324
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

The iron foundries here are one thing another are the crankshaft and the connecting rods. Add up the cost of having all of the parts cast or forged and machined and I think you will find it will cost many times over what it would be compared to having the work done in China. Initially this project was intended to be affordable and close to the cost of rebuilding an old original Model A block crank and rods. The new engine looks exactly like the original old block with much better components internally with readily available parts and advanced design. I can tell you from first hand experience of owning and having a running Burtz engine, it is an ideal Model A engine replacement. Not only is the block crankshaft and rods far superior to an old Model A engine, but the support from Terry Burtz and the rest of his team is top notch. If you have a problem with your new Burtz kit, Terry is only a phone call away and Terry will stay with you helping for as long as it takes. I can tell everyone that from first hand experience.
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Old 05-04-2021, 05:42 PM   #325
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar44 View Post
It is absolutely disappointing to hear that this work had to be taken to China. I use a very competent US owned iron foundry in Mexico for a lot of our work and they are very good. Whether or not they are up to casting an engine block... Not sure. But did anyone try and contact Mesa Castings?
Ok, you’re ‘disappointed.
I think WE ALL get that.

Mexico, china...China, mexico ??

What is your point, as NEITHER is USA...



Are you saying Mexico is same same as... Made in USA ...what ?

I’m Very disappointed that china HAD to be used because IT has the resources, the tech and skilled labor... to do this work... and USA DID NOT.

HOWEVER , here I sit looking at a beautiful BURTZ engine.

Last edited by hardtimes; 05-04-2021 at 05:48 PM. Reason: ......
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:31 PM   #326
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Thank Terry for that Beautiful Engine...It means that the Model A Ford has more of a future a generation or more down the road than if the Bertz Engine did not exist! It does mean that cars could well be running and enjoyed by our grand children when they are our age...Just my humbe opinion...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:40 PM   #327
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Any chance of seeing one of these new engines being displayed at the upcoming MARC National in OshKosh, Wi this June?
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:54 PM   #328
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I would like to see videos of what people have built with the new Engine Kit. it would also be great to her them run.

David Serrano
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:06 PM   #329
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Any chance of seeing one of these new engines being displayed at the upcoming MARC National in OshKosh, Wi this June?
Yes there is that chance. And there will be a seminar at the convention with Terry Burtz and the new engine, including at least 2 cars there with a running Burtz engine, both of which I was told will be driven there from their home.
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Old 05-26-2021, 02:39 PM   #330
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

UPDATE
As engines are being built, the "Builders Guide" is evolving. The latest revision of the "Builders Guide" is dated 24 May 2021 and can be found at www.modelaengine.com.

We will be displaying the "New Engine" kit at Oshkosh in the B. F. Carter room from Tuesday, June 8, through Friday, June 11, and I'll be giving a seminar on Friday afternoon.

There should be cars driven to the convention with the "New Engine".

There is a discount for MARC members that have registered for the convention.

The 2nd production run is scheduled for delivery in August 2021.
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Old 05-26-2021, 05:44 PM   #331
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry
Would it be possible to highlight recent updates or list specifically whatís been changed so we can easily know what we need to check on already built engines using an early version of the guides


Thanks
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Old 05-26-2021, 07:48 PM   #332
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
Ok, youíre Ďdisappointed.
I think WE ALL get that.
Iím Very disappointed that china HAD to be used because IT has the resources, the tech and skilled labor... to do this work... and USA DID NOT.
THAT STATEMENT IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!
The explanation gets political so that is all I am saying.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:05 PM   #333
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar44 View Post
It is absolutely disappointing to hear that this work had to be taken to China. I use a very competent US owned iron foundry in Mexico for a lot of our work and they are very good. Whether or not they are up to casting an engine block... Not sure. But did anyone try and contact Mesa Castings?
Does the engine use castings from China? I sure hope not. We have Cast Iron foundry's in this country that are experts and I know of at least one that focuses on engine blocks. The problem is they are more expensive over China but worth every penny. All you have to do is look at the chemistry and microstructure of China Iron and it's a no brainer.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:50 PM   #334
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

The blocks were cast and machined in China. If you follow the development of this engine and Todd Buttermore's (?) efforts, you will see that they have tried to have it done in the US but couldn't get a foundry competent enough to cast the blocks while the Chinese were all over it.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:59 PM   #335
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Model A Ron,

The new engine parts are made in China using factories that use the same modern iron, ductile iron, forged steel, and Quality Assurance that is used in modern engines.

Please see www.modelaengine.com for more information.
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Old 05-26-2021, 09:08 PM   #336
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Dennis Kliesen, post 329 above, is on his way to Oshkosh WI for the MARC National Convention driving with a "New Engine" in his car.

This afternoon, he sent the following email that is pasted below.

For those of you that didnít already know, Iím inRoute to Oshkosh WI, for the National Convention held June 7th to 11th. I made my departure from Mission Viejo Tuesday at 2:30 PM. I had a bit of a delay when I arrived in Las Vegas. My son and his wife were enjoying a week early wedding anniversary without V the kids. So I stopped and we spent time with them and walking. Henrietta is sure getting a lot of attention, all age groups waving honking thumbs up etc. Even the truck drivers honk flash their lights and wave. Everybody driving faster than I have been very courteous. So itís been a pleasant trip so far.

I usually stop for gas between 110 and 150 miles. At first the new engine needed a bit of oil when I gassed up. So I promptly added to bring the level up to full. This last time it didnít require any oil added, and that is in Beaver,UT. My MPG is averaging right at 19. Iím driving in 3rd gear and direct with the Mitchell gear splitter. I average between 50 to 55 out on the road. It was hot yesterday, but was cooling in the afternoon when I passed through Baker, CA. 91į when I passed through.

I havenít taken very many pictures, not a whole lot to see. Iíll be passing through the most scenic of Utah soon and Iíll be stopping for pictures.

The new Burtz engine has been flawless so far. Not a drop leaking anywhere. This engine runs butter smooth. I really have to watch the speedometer beings I canít tell how fast Iím going by the way the engine sounds. Iím extremely pleased with the new engine.

Have a great week everybody!

Dennis
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Old 05-26-2021, 10:38 PM   #337
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
Model A Ron,

The new engine parts are made in China using factories that use the same modern iron, ductile iron, forged steel, and Quality Assurance that is used in modern engines.

Please see www.modelaengine.com for more information.
Thanks Terry
I work in Global Automotive Supplier Quality and I have seen some good stuff out of China but a lot of bad as well. Ask them for full Material Certs including the Chemistry and Mechanical properties of the material. They may want to add a charge for the certs but it also keeps them honest. If anything fails have a local Metallurgical lab do an investigation. I understand all to well the cost advantage of China so I do understand your decision.

On a different note I have not had issues with Mexico Foundry's. Most of the Companies in Mexico are the factories that were once in the USA so that may be an option in the future.

Thanks for doing what your doing. This is truly an amazing project and the Model A world needs more people like yourself.

Regards,
Ron

Last edited by Model A Ron; 05-26-2021 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 05-26-2021, 10:44 PM   #338
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
Dennis Kliesen, post 329 above, is on his way to Oshkosh WI for the MARC National Convention driving with a "New Engine" in his car.

This afternoon, he sent the following email that is pasted below.

For those of you that didnít already know, Iím inRoute to Oshkosh WI, for the National Convention held June 7th to 11th. I made my departure from Mission Viejo Tuesday at 2:30 PM. I had a bit of a delay when I arrived in Las Vegas. My son and his wife were enjoying a week early wedding anniversary without V the kids. So I stopped and we spent time with them and walking. Henrietta is sure getting a lot of attention, all age groups waving honking thumbs up etc. Even the truck drivers honk flash their lights and wave. Everybody driving faster than I have been very courteous. So itís been a pleasant trip so far.

I usually stop for gas between 110 and 150 miles. At first the new engine needed a bit of oil when I gassed up. So I promptly added to bring the level up to full. This last time it didnít require any oil added, and that is in Beaver,UT. My MPG is averaging right at 19. Iím driving in 3rd gear and direct with the Mitchell gear splitter. I average between 50 to 55 out on the road. It was hot yesterday, but was cooling in the afternoon when I passed through Baker, CA. 91į when I passed through.

I havenít taken very many pictures, not a whole lot to see. Iíll be passing through the most scenic of Utah soon and Iíll be stopping for pictures.

The new Burtz engine has been flawless so far. Not a drop leaking anywhere. This engine runs butter smooth. I really have to watch the speedometer beings I canít tell how fast Iím going by the way the engine sounds. Iím extremely pleased with the new engine.

Have a great week everybody!

Dennis

Wonderful report
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Old 05-27-2021, 06:27 AM   #339
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
The blocks were cast and machined in China. If you follow the development of this engine and Todd Buttermore's (?) efforts, you will see that they have tried to have it done in the US but couldn't get a foundry competent enough to cast the blocks while the Chinese were all over it.
Heaven help us all if a war were to break out

I've avoided posting in this thread but I'm not sure where you got the idea that I can't get blocks cast here. I have 3 foundries near me that can do it and the one I am using has made beautiful 3 main and 5 main iron block castings. I have posted pictures mostly on Facebook, and I believe even on Ford Barn. Let's make sure we keep to the facts.


Tod
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Old 05-27-2021, 02:23 PM   #340
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

There has been some discussion on another forum regarding the choice of rear main seal and should the garter spring be removed.

The seal that we used in the Engineering Evaluation Engine was a National 415035 with the garter spring removed and we had no leaks.

National 415035 and 37939 seals both have an outside diameter of 5.004 inches and are a press-fit into the 4.999 inch housing bore of the "New Model A Engine".

The National 37939 seal has a lip made from Teflon and it does not have a garter spring.

The National 37939 seal is used in Detroit Diesel 6V53 engines as a rear main seal.

The Detroit Diesel part number is 8926902.

The seal and redi-sleeve is $20.01 at the following website (store.reliableindustries.com) under their part number A-8926902.

The redi-sleeve is used to repair a groove worn in the shaft and is not needed in the "New Model A Engine".
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