The Ford Barn

Warren Barnes · 01-29-2018, 02:10 PM

So I have a good understanding of the letter & numer codes for the Starter & Generator Band Dates (K6 would be 1930 - June). I have also found Steve Plucker’s documentation on Engine S/N Manufacturing Dates. I also understand that the S/N’s we’re stamped on the (US) Engines after they passed acceptance testing at the Rouge Plant prior to the engines being shipped to the various Assembly Plants. I also understand that the Block S/N was installed on the Frame on the assembly line.

The piece of the puzzle I’m missing is where the accessories (Generators, Starters, and etc.) were installed to the block. While I would assume that these items were installed on the block prior to the acceptance testing and therefore an Engine with a S/N of mid to late June should have Starter & Generator Band Dates with K6 for example. Is this correct, or would the Starter & Generator Band Dates have a later date matching closer to the assembly of the Engine into the frame?

d.j. moordigian · 01-29-2018, 06:16 PM

Lets make this simple,...besides ordering the JS book..and I think I understand your
question..

Here are 2 things you need to know..
1. I n the Judging Standards and Restoration Book is the "60 day rule",..parts made
PRIOR to the completion of your car...okay?
2. Lets say you have a big pile of starters (maybe 4,000),..the first one in the pile will
be the last one used,..." first in, last out"

Lets say your engine was stamped on this day, 6-1-1930..

Lets say your engine was installed in your car,..7-1-1930..and your car WAS completed
on that date..your starter band COULD have a date 60 days prior to the date of
completion..

So,..you can't have a NEWER part than when the car rolled off the line,..IF YOU ARE
BUILDING A CAR FOR JUDGING.

I think / I hope I have this correct for you,
Dudley

Tom Wesenberg · 01-29-2018, 06:36 PM

I generally consider the starter and generator build should be the same as the engine and at least up to 2 months previous. As d. j. said, it should also pass judging a little after the engine date stamp, but it makes sense to me that the ancillaries would have been completed before the engine.

CWPASADENA · 01-29-2018, 07:59 PM

Were not the starter, generator, distributor and carburetor install at the assembly plant prior to installing the engine assembly into the chassis?

I seem to remember seeing pictures of the engine/transmission assembly being prepared for shipping to the assembly plants. The engine had the intake and exhaust manifold installed but no other accessories.

I do not believe the engines were actually run at the Rouge Plant. The engine/transmission assembly was placed on a motoring dynamometer stand where the engine was turned by the electric motor and the torque required to turn the engine was measured. When the required torque dropped below a predetermined value, the engine was pronounced good and it was removed and shipped. This procedure helped to seat the rings and bearings.

I have never actually seen a complete discussion published by Ford on what actually took place. I am only going on what I have been able to read and carefully looking at factory photos.

If someone has actual documentation from Ford, please enlighten us.

Now, if what I have posted is correct, the starter and generator dates could vary from the build date of the engine but all dates must fall within the guidelines in the Judging Standards.

My take on the subject, but others may have better information.

Chris W.

Warren Barnes · 01-31-2018, 05:10 PM

Thank you all for your feedback. I do have a copy of the Judging Standards (Rev4) and I’m doing my best to build my car for fine point judging using this book. My engine and frame are marked with S/N’s being manufactured on June 30th 1930. I’m building the car as an early Dlx Roadster which would mean earlier in August 1930. So I was trying to understand more about the assembly order to know if I should be hunting for K6 Bands to aline with the engine build or with K7/K8 Bands to go with car assembly. Understanding that the Standards have a bit of tolerance built in (some of which I’m using up in that July time frame).

msmaron · 02-03-2018, 12:31 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here you go Warren...

BILL WILLIAMSON · 02-03-2018, 02:06 PM

Do you REALLY think other supplied parts were grabbed in order??????? (Spare me!)---LOL
Bill Practical

01-29-2018, 02:10 PM	#1
Warren Barnes Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 3	Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s So I have a good understanding of the letter & numer codes for the Starter & Generator Band Dates (K6 would be 1930 - June). I have also found Steve Plucker’s documentation on Engine S/N Manufacturing Dates. I also understand that the S/N’s we’re stamped on the (US) Engines after they passed acceptance testing at the Rouge Plant prior to the engines being shipped to the various Assembly Plants. I also understand that the Block S/N was installed on the Frame on the assembly line. The piece of the puzzle I’m missing is where the accessories (Generators, Starters, and etc.) were installed to the block. While I would assume that these items were installed on the block prior to the acceptance testing and therefore an Engine with a S/N of mid to late June should have Starter & Generator Band Dates with K6 for example. Is this correct, or would the Starter & Generator Band Dates have a later date matching closer to the assembly of the Engine into the frame?

01-29-2018, 06:16 PM	#2
d.j. moordigian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fresno, Ca. Posts: 3,636	Re: Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s Lets make this simple,...besides ordering the JS book..and I think I understand your question.. Here are 2 things you need to know.. 1. I n the Judging Standards and Restoration Book is the "60 day rule",..parts made PRIOR to the completion of your car...okay? 2. Lets say you have a big pile of starters (maybe 4,000),..the first one in the pile will be the last one used,..." first in, last out" Lets say your engine was stamped on this day, 6-1-1930.. Lets say your engine was installed in your car,..7-1-1930..and your car WAS completed on that date..your starter band COULD have a date 60 days prior to the date of completion.. So,..you can't have a NEWER part than when the car rolled off the line,..IF YOU ARE BUILDING A CAR FOR JUDGING. I think / I hope I have this correct for you, Dudley

01-29-2018, 06:36 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s I generally consider the starter and generator build should be the same as the engine and at least up to 2 months previous. As d. j. said, it should also pass judging a little after the engine date stamp, but it makes sense to me that the ancillaries would have been completed before the engine.

01-29-2018, 07:59 PM	#4
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,884	Re: Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s Were not the starter, generator, distributor and carburetor install at the assembly plant prior to installing the engine assembly into the chassis? I seem to remember seeing pictures of the engine/transmission assembly being prepared for shipping to the assembly plants. The engine had the intake and exhaust manifold installed but no other accessories. I do not believe the engines were actually run at the Rouge Plant. The engine/transmission assembly was placed on a motoring dynamometer stand where the engine was turned by the electric motor and the torque required to turn the engine was measured. When the required torque dropped below a predetermined value, the engine was pronounced good and it was removed and shipped. This procedure helped to seat the rings and bearings. I have never actually seen a complete discussion published by Ford on what actually took place. I am only going on what I have been able to read and carefully looking at factory photos. If someone has actual documentation from Ford, please enlighten us. Now, if what I have posted is correct, the starter and generator dates could vary from the build date of the engine but all dates must fall within the guidelines in the Judging Standards. My take on the subject, but others may have better information. Chris W.

01-31-2018, 05:10 PM	#5
Warren Barnes Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 3	Re: Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s Thank you all for your feedback. I do have a copy of the Judging Standards (Rev4) and I’m doing my best to build my car for fine point judging using this book. My engine and frame are marked with S/N’s being manufactured on June 30th 1930. I’m building the car as an early Dlx Roadster which would mean earlier in August 1930. So I was trying to understand more about the assembly order to know if I should be hunting for K6 Bands to aline with the engine build or with K7/K8 Bands to go with car assembly. Understanding that the Standards have a bit of tolerance built in (some of which I’m using up in that July time frame).

02-03-2018, 02:06 PM	#7
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Starter & Generator Band Dates VS Engine S/N’s Do you REALLY think other supplied parts were grabbed in order??????? (Spare me!)---LOL Bill Practical __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"