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03-29-2019, 09:36 AM | #21 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Ring type universal. Used on most pre-1930 Model A. No seals. Designed to be used inside the "clamshells" (actually a semi-spherical joint which joins the back of the transmission to the axle.)
The "modern" Dana-Spicer type yoke & cross universal. As used in 1930ish and beyond Fords. Here is an image of the Dana-Spicer unit showing the later universal "broke down" into non-yoke parts. Each of the prongs of the cross is covered by a sealed one-sided needle bearing. The unit is assembled to the yokes by use of the "snaprings" in the bag. If you were to buy a replacement Model A Universal today - this is what you would get. Lubricated for the life of the universal and sealed against the entrance of contamination. Some D-S production may include a zerk to grease the needle bearings. The zerk would be inaccessible in the clamshells. Joe K
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Shudda kept the horse. Last edited by Joe K; 03-29-2019 at 09:47 AM. |
03-29-2019, 10:45 AM | #22 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Thanks for the info, but is there a way to tell what you have if it is installed and everything mounted in the car? If yes, pictures?
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03-29-2019, 11:29 AM | #23 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Without disassembly of the clamshell halves and a bit of a "pull-back" to the rear axle - probably not.
The inner "half sphere" (mounts to the rear bearing retainer of the transmission and is normally covered by the half-shells) has a couple of holes which I surmise one might be able to use a strong flashlight and look into to see the universal - but I think the matching half sphere of the torque tube covers the holes. A required "pull back" of the axle should be just enough to pull the two mating half spheres to the rear and see the universal within. With the brake rods dis-attached, this might be possible without undoing the axle from the frame or spring - there is a "skosh" of play here in the free motion of the spring/shackles. Where the pix says "Oil Enclosure," you'll be looking in just below the small "e." All you need is about 1" of clear view - and I think the length of the rear spline on the universal will allow the axle, torque tube, and drive shaft to move rear-ward without everything coming apart and the torque tube dropping to the floor. OBTW, the pix is from Victor Page's "Model A Ford" book which was printed first early in 1928, and shows the "ring style" universal in cross section. Joe K
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Shudda kept the horse. Last edited by Joe K; 03-29-2019 at 11:34 AM. |
03-29-2019, 11:35 AM | #24 | |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
If you do not know which type you have and it is the needle type, ok to grease the needle type same method as the ring type ("more is better")?
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03-29-2019, 01:45 PM | #25 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
I’d sure like to see that Dana Spicer get installed on the yokes of a Model A. It’s well known the riveted original ujoint will not last. The ujoint with the retainer rings last much longer with adequate lubrication. I coat the spherical surfaces of the torque tube, center plate and clamshell halves and the remainder of a grease tube in and around the ujoint with a tube of grease. Depending on how much grease squeezes out of the clamshell, I give the grease fitting on the bottom front piece of the clamshell about 20 pumps every 500 miles when I grease the rest of the chassis.
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03-29-2019, 03:09 PM | #26 | |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
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03-29-2019, 03:33 PM | #27 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Hello to each other, I can tell now something about filling quantity with grease from practice:
Here in the forum I have read that so much grease should be pressed in the universal joint until it swells out of the speedometer drive out. I did that about 40 miles ago. Today I controlled the gear oil with the dipstick, installed 2 days ago. And now find a lot of grease mixed with the gear oil!
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03-29-2019, 03:39 PM | #28 | |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Quote:
And yes there would be a small power loss particularly until the grease has been relocated. But the Torque Tube/Universal worked for Ford in both the Model T and the Model A, and with improvements up to the end of the torque tube era. Given the supply of Dana-Spicer U-joints that are out there (in another thread I have mentioned some "variability" of supply - at least from D-S) and the problems that Ford got past by adopting the Cross & Yoke design, if you're apart and see you have the ring style, don't use it. Do something better. If not apart, just wait until you are - for whatever reason. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Joe K
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03-29-2019, 04:23 PM | #29 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
I have never seen a sealed needle type Spicer ujoint in a Model A. If they make such a thing I’d like to see pictures of it secured to the output shaft of the transmission as well the yoke to the driveshaft. Either way you need to keep the clam shell lubricated with grease. There was originally a felt packing on the rear shell halves l, now replaced with cork. Do as Richard in Anaheim recommends. Remove speedometer gear and pump grease in fitting until grease appears.
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03-29-2019, 11:17 PM | #30 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Post 28 and 29 have answered my concern. I missed or was unaware of this info if in the earlier posts, that the needle type was quickly replaced at the beginning production of A's. Since My truck is a late 30, I have the ring sytle/cross and yoke design.
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03-29-2019, 11:44 PM | #31 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
This is what a replacement universal joint for a Model A looks like. There are no needle bearings. This is a sleeve type bearing.
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03-30-2019, 01:52 AM | #32 | |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
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03-30-2019, 03:06 PM | #33 |
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Re: How much grease in the clamshell?
Back to the grease quantity:
So unhealthy looks the mush! Gearbox"oil"contaminated with the grease from the universal shell.
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Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland, Werner Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928 Citroen 11 CV, 1947 Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version |
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