Early Engine Questions

[Jim Parker Toronto]

I received an Early Engine, CA 45XX, April 28, from a hot rodder friend of mine that was tired of "tripping over it". The price was right! When I got it home and mounted on my stand, I noticed that the head nuts were shorter than what I am used to seeing. This motor looks to be a very low mileage one, or at least one that was well maintained and not outside too much. The pan looks like it has never been scratched, and the fan is the best I have ever seen! Most of the Early parts are there, banana, distributor, and waterpump. There is no grease or oil anywhere to be found on the outside of the engine. The exhaust manifold is only pitted a little, and the carb has the brass fittings on it! The oil that came out of it, was clear. The motor turns over and it does have compression!
Back to my question, do these nuts on the head bolts look original, they are shorter than regular nuts I am used to seeing? They seem to match the studs.

[JBR]

I can't advise about the head nuts. I am curious about the line coming down to the front of the carb. What is it? Looks like it is rubber.
Jon

[Marco Tahtaras]

What a deal!!!

Yes, the early engines used head nuts 3/8" thick instead of the more common 7/16". In USA production my best guess is the change was late January 1928. This were an engineering change carried under the same part number. Your pics bring something else to mind I hadn't considered. It's quite apparent the early head studs were also 1/16" shorter. Thanks, I learned something!

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by JBR

I can't advise about the head nuts. I am curious about the line coming down to the front of the carb. What is it? Looks like it is rubber.
Jon

Yes, it's the coil wire......

[d.j. moordigian]

JBR,

Coil wire.

Marco,

Good point.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

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Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

What a deal!!!

Yes, the early engines used head nuts 3/8" thick instead of the more common 7/16". In USA production my best guess is the change was late January 1928. This were an engineering change carried under the same part number. Your pics bring something else to mind I hadn't considered. It's quite apparent the early head studs were also 1/16" shorter. Thanks, I learned something!

Thanks, Marco, I learned something too! I was wondering if I had an oddball engine or what! From what I was told the engine came out of a Roadster that had a really good body. Wish I had the rest of the parts, timing cover, starter, flywheel and transmission... Maybe I'll give him a call.
Canadian production started in Feb 28, according to my records, so it would be strange that in the second week of April, 28, that we would still be using the old nuts. Henry must have had a pile of these left over, and just shipped them out of the USA! From late January to the middle of April is a long time, but the low number might come into play here as well.

[dean from bozeman]

Jim, this engine is a wonderful find. I sent you a request on the engine nuts via private e-mail.

The engine nuts are spot on. The ones I have on A495 aren't as Marco pointed out when he saw it in San Diego. I am still looking for some.

The carburetor and flywheel housing also are of the early variety.

Thanks for sharing the story and photos. Actually, I would love to see as many photos of it as you have.

Thanks.

Dean

[Marco Tahtaras]

I just noticed something else. It appears that there still remains part of the wax "plug" in the distributor. If that is the case then the condenser has never been changed. I wish you were closer so I could study this thing in person! ford called it a "wax sealant" in an early Service Bulletin, but it would have to be substance with a higher melting point. When you gt to it I'd like to know if it feels waxy. I'm also interested in the details of the condenser.

[700rpm]

Wow! What a find! I love this stuff!

[Richard Lorenz]

Can you tell the color of the engine paint? I have a June Canadian-built Phaeton (Montreal) that had some blue-gray color remaining.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

To all those inquiring, I don't know what I am doing with this yet, and I will take some more pictures soon. Any particular pictures requested I will try and do. Please PM me. Any parts that I don't need, will be available, maybe all of it! It even had 3x plugs in it that didn't look too bad. I only build drivers, so these rare parts will be going to someone who needs them for a fine point restoration. I am not a purist, but I love Model A's......

[Fred]

I also noticed the plug or part of in the dist.hole... The one thing I wonder is with all the EARLY stuff on it, It shows the 2nd style dist. point plate & by the looks of it, the later oil pan ??..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Jim, I'm worried about your engine mount for the engine stand. I only see 2 bolts holding it and the lower legs will give some support in the upright position, but if you turn the engine over I can imagine the 2 bolts may bend or break with no lower support. I would modify the lower legs to bolt to the top of the pan rail on the block.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Jim, I'm worried about your engine mount for the engine stand. I only see 2 bolts holding it and the lower legs will give some support in the upright position, but if you turn the engine over I can imagine the 2 bolts may bend or break with no lower support. I would modify the lower legs to bolt to the top of the pan rail on the block.

Yes, Tom, it is homemade by me, but what you can't see I guess is the two pins that go into the block where the pan bolts have been removed. I modeled it after some I had seen being sold by the venders. Last year it had Blue's motor on it, complete with the transmission, so I guess it will be ok. Thanks for your concern, safety is everyone's business!

[Tom Wesenberg]

OK, in that case your mount looks plenty strong. I didn't know you had pins in the holes.

If you can save any of the original distributor wax I'd like to see it also. Thanks