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02-14-2021, 03:30 AM | #1 |
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Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Ok, should have asked...before broke head stud.
What is the BEST last resort effort that you’ve used to extract head studs that will not loosen... short of snapping the stud. Sickening sound. I’ve tried everything that I know...which isn’t much. How does torch heat on stud sound.... good/bad or don’t do? I’m guessing that there are better/ best grades of EZ OUTS. ANYONE KNOW EZ out info and whether this is bad idea to use ? Snapped drill in broken stud in blk. Quit to refocus. Seven more to address !!! Thanks for any positive input. Last edited by hardtimes; 02-14-2021 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Pics.....as requested. |
02-14-2021, 05:55 AM | #2 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
I have just removed 96 studs from two V8 engines, all came out with no drama.
Step one, cut off all studs about 3/4 inch up from block with a 4 in angle grinder with a cutoff wheel, step two, get a pile of old head nuts and drill them out to 7/16ths. step three, slip the drilled out nuts over the cut off studs, step four, big weld the nuts onto the cutoff studs. Step five, when they have cooled use a rattle gun and rattle them out. Lawrie |
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02-14-2021, 05:58 AM | #3 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
after lubricating well with PB blaster, I use a pipe wrench gently in both directions, just to work it loose. Have never had a problem.
regarding the broken drill bit in the stud........... I am assuming you will need to lubricate well and get the bit out first. chisel? heat? wax? |
02-14-2021, 07:43 AM | #4 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
The weld a nut to the stud is the best method even if the stud is broken off flush with the block. The heat from welding on the stud and a bit of penetrating lubricant will usually get the job done to loosen the stud. The use of an EZ out frequently ends up in disaster. If the stud is too frozen to come out without breaking, most likely the EZ out will break off also. The broken EZ out is much harder to remove as it is a very hard steel that will resist most any normal attempt to be drilled out.
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02-14-2021, 07:50 AM | #5 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
I would try this first on a scrap block. In shop class in high school I was taught that a cutting torch would blow out a steel stud from a cast iron block. The torch melts and blows out the stud without damaging the threads in the block. The torch melts the stud by using the oxygen to burn the steel but the cast iron is not touched. Again, I would try this first on a scrap block. The stud does not have to be stuck in the scrap block, just inserted. By the way, that would have been in 1962.
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02-14-2021, 09:05 AM | #6 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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Last edited by Superhart; 02-14-2021 at 09:14 AM. |
02-14-2021, 09:44 AM | #7 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Snapped off drill bit in a broken stud ain't good, good that you now have asked for help! You need to find a welder / shop who can remove the broken stud without doing more damage. A washer on the block and a nut weld to the remaining stud trick is what is needed. Lawrie's method of removing the remaining studs sounds like a great way of removing the rest of the studs!!! The high intensity heat will break the rust bond and allow the removal of the studs.
When I was working in the airlines we had to remove steel wear strips from aluminum wheels. The steel counter sunk screws couldn't be removed some times and we would have a welder weld 2 towering tits on the screw heads so we could grab the towering tits with pliers a then turn the screws out. This method always work in removing this stuck screws ALWAYS !
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02-14-2021, 09:50 AM | #8 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
The easiest way I have found is to use tig welder to weld washer to flush remains, it won't care about the broke off but, then after the washer is welded weld a nut to the washer
Mig welder can work, but not as good, with that metal is getting added, the more metal, the more heat so I build a blob, sometimes through a hole in a piece of copper so nothing sticks to the base metal Blowing it out with the torch can work good, but if it goes wrong it can harden the thread area so a tap won't touch the threads Last edited by Kurt in NJ; 02-14-2021 at 09:58 AM. |
02-14-2021, 01:17 PM | #9 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Take it to a specialist with a plunge EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining).
One service near you is: http://brokentap.com/services/ |
02-14-2021, 07:36 PM | #10 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Do people use the left hand drill bits on broken studs? These are used so that the drill torque will tend to back out the stud instead of driving it further in.
On an exhaust manifold, I drilled out the broken stud with an oversize drill and retreaded for a helical coil insert. Worked great. A guide came with my car that uses the head to guide the drill bit. The guide is a close fit in the bolt hole in the head and the drill bit is a close fit in the guide. There are drill bits that are designed to drill drill bits. Very hard and expensive. See https://www.mcmaster.com/drill-bits/...ardened-steel/
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 02-14-2021 at 07:43 PM. |
02-14-2021, 08:20 PM | #11 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Here is a good link for information on removing studs:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. |
02-14-2021, 10:25 PM | #12 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
When I come across a broken stud I will center punch the broken stud and drill a shallow hole (about 1/8" deep) into the stud with a 5/32" bit. Using a short burst with a mig welder (don't have tig) I fill the hole I just drilled with weld. I let allow the weld cool just long enough for the bright red glow to fade a bit and then stack another burst weld just off center of it and again allow the color of the weld to fade a bit. I work my way around the top of the stud repeating this stacking of welds until the weld is built up above the level of the block a quarter inch or so. This allows the heat to better penetrate the broken off stud.
The block stays cool and any weld that strays onto it generally will not stick or at least makes a very weak bond with it. Then I place a flat washer onto the stack of welds and weld it in place followed by a nut stacked on top of the washer. Fill the center of the nut with weld and allow it to cool almost to room temp. Grab it with a vice grip and try to work it off then. If your weld breaks loose from the broken stud then just give it another go. Sometimes it takes quite a few times before it finally breaks loose and comes out. Since you have a bit broken off in yours you wouldn't be able to drill the hole first but it should work with the broken piece of bit in place. I strip the cadmium plating off of the washer and nut before welding with a 50/50 mix of muratic acid and water. The cadmium plating makes for a messy weld.
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02-15-2021, 01:45 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Quote:
I got somewhat lucky , as I worked the broken drill out of the stud You gave good description of your method of broke stud removal , thanks ! Now I just have to buy a mig or tig, and learn to use it...lol |
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02-15-2021, 02:16 AM | #14 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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I forgot about Vince's site. Wonderful info. About all a guy needs to know to be successful stud remover ! Now, who sells best Tig ... for this small job ? |
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02-15-2021, 02:27 AM | #15 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Quote:
Since I have 7-8 more to go, Im thinking Tig now. I was using double nut, and foot long pipe wrench when this first one let go. I also soaked all studs for a month with acetone/ATF mix. All a waste of time. |
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02-15-2021, 02:38 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Quote:
Hey Terry, Thanks much for this great info ! I was talking with Pres of Model A club this morning. He , a mech engineer, said same as you r input. He said that there is an additional method , similar to the EDM. I will look into the referrence you gave. Thanks again. |
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02-15-2021, 02:46 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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Can’t wait.... thanks for all YOU have done to make it happen !! |
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02-15-2021, 02:53 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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Amen to what you state ! Been there done that Thanks |
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02-15-2021, 09:20 AM | #19 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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02-15-2021, 09:22 AM | #20 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
If you end up drilling use a timesert,way better than a helicoil.
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02-15-2021, 03:01 PM | #21 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
As Terry Burtz suggests, using an EDM machine works great. I had a broken head stud removed locally by a shop that had those machines and the stud was removed quickly and the stud hole was in perfect condition. But the block was out of the car and apart which does make it easier.
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02-15-2021, 05:19 PM | #22 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
I have two on my B block that heat didn't help before they wrung off so I'm not going to bother with it to remove the remains. I'll grind them as flat as possible and locate a small hole in the center of the stud, them work the holes larger until only the threads are left. Been doing it like this for years in an industrial environment. They've been soaking in PB blaster for a couple months so hopefully they come out easily.
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02-16-2021, 08:59 AM | #23 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Ie got one in a B that someone drilled at about a 10 degree angle,then helicoiled..My plan is to use a mag drill to square the hole and timesert it
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02-16-2021, 09:00 AM | #24 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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02-18-2021, 03:32 AM | #25 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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02-18-2021, 07:22 AM | #26 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
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02-18-2021, 09:08 AM | #27 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
I use heat and vibration to break free a rusty stud but I don't spend alot of time on them.i give it one or two trys if it doesn't come it stays..the trick is to center the pilot hole and drill square to the block once you dress the broken stud flush.I use a mag drill for this, make life easy.By using a timesert I drill beyond the stud,basically tapping the grey iron for the insert...so I ultimately do get the stud out...by drill
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02-18-2021, 09:29 AM | #28 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Hello Hardtimes, the one thing that no one has mentioned is that you are now forever traumatized when comes to cylinder head nuts and torqueing them to 55 ft-lbs. Many years ago I had an engine rebuilt and I stupidly told the rebuilder that I wanted to paint the head separately from the block. Even though I had a new stud/nut set and a torque wrench, one of the studs was soft and broke off flush with the block. There is nothing worse than the experience of turning the torque wrench and watching the torque value decrease! Now I always spend a little extra and get the extra grade studs and nuts. Even so, I still have high blood pressure when I walk up to my Model A with a torque wrench in my hand! Ed
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02-18-2021, 09:39 AM | #29 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Quote:
John |
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02-18-2021, 12:24 PM | #30 |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
FWIW, I've had pretty good luck using left hand drills to remove broken studs, but I've only tried it in a drill press or mill. Never tried it freehand.
I order Timeserts from https://www.threadkits.com/, have had good luck with them. JayJay
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02-19-2021, 05:33 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.
Quote:
I have tried most any method could be thot up. When a guy knows what to look for, and finds worst conditions... where studs ARE GOING to break... I figure no harm to ask if there may be a new IDEA out there. This Goodson tool is NEW to me. I have a bud who is engineer fellow. He said ‘try this’, so I will try it ! Dont have much faith in stud removal tools/apparatus. Have broken EVERYTHING tried over decades. Cant give up. Damn things have to come out one way or other. Have not tried tig weld washer nut process as do not possess Tig. Guys say that that doesn’t always work. My studs have been in this B blk forever... looks like, as they are rusted into stud .... right at block. It may not.be pretty, but they will come out.. in little pieces if necessary. Can you say inserts/ timeserts.. whatever. Do not want to go caveman on this blk. But do remember how to ... if that’s what it takes. |
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