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02-05-2021, 06:43 PM | #1 |
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Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
What doyou see ?
Good, bad, ugly ?? |
02-05-2021, 07:21 PM | #2 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
it looks like the engine has set a long time without oil in the bearings. and in a damp place.
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02-05-2021, 07:58 PM | #3 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
looks like there was a fit problem so the holes in the cap were adjusted
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02-05-2021, 08:07 PM | #4 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Polish the journal with a scotchbrite pad...NOT emory cloth!!! Then clean with oil and mic up the journal to see if it in spec. Bearing looks good. A little surface rust on the crankwebs won't hurt anything.
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02-05-2021, 09:11 PM | #5 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Good Evening...Are there any shims with that Rod?
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02-05-2021, 10:19 PM | #6 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
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02-05-2021, 11:11 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
Yeah, that is a bit dark ! Are you saying it is new bearing ? Thats part of my asking for input... that is- cause of dark appearance ? Does that appearance indicate AGE of bearing; a bearing not used for years darkens, what ? Also, no oil changes and use of dirty oil... can / dose that color bearing like mine/yours...what can turn bearings dark ?? Last edited by hardtimes; 02-05-2021 at 11:12 PM. Reason: Zzzzzz |
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02-05-2021, 11:22 PM | #8 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Hey Ernie,
Good question ! No shim(s) in this rear rod . I have no plastigage right now.... so will have to wait to gage / spec clearance. The number 1 rod had plenty of shims...which were Steel....home made. Same no plastigage situ for now. Only got first and fourth off , so far. |
02-05-2021, 11:26 PM | #9 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
google checking rod bearings with aluminum foil, don't need plastigage.
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02-05-2021, 11:30 PM | #10 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Thanks for your input and advice. Sounds like good plan. Regarding bearing looks, I have no clue how long this engine has sat. Your observations about rust on crank webs, to me, says it sat unused for long time... oil drained from web...ergo surface rust.
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02-05-2021, 11:34 PM | #11 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Take this for what its worth, darkened babbitt can be from age (oxidation) but it can also be the grade of babbitt.
Higher grades typically have more antimony, typically it is a brighter color or shiny. You can sometimes get a good feel for how hard the material is by using a sharp awl and scratching the surface. A good place to test is in the oil groove so a scratch doesn't affect the bearing surface. John
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02-05-2021, 11:34 PM | #12 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
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02-05-2021, 11:45 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
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02-05-2021, 11:46 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
Excellent ! This gives most answers to a lot of Questions in my mind... about what I see ! In your opinion, should I attempt any cleanup of the journal(s). Didnt mike,as it was getting dark and I have poor eyes and primitive work place( no light) ! I’ll use your advice to check babbitt hardness. |
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02-05-2021, 11:53 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
... |
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02-06-2021, 12:04 AM | #16 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
Read the John Neilsen response. IMO opinion, he gave the basic evidence to answer dark babbitt vs bright -to wit, bearing makeup is what makes some babbitt HARD/DARK, whereas antimony addition makes other babbitt BRIGHT/SHINY... and SOFTER (?) Babbitt is an art , I’ve read. And ART is in the eye of the babbiter. Thats my story, and I’ll change it... if better evidence is recd. Last edited by hardtimes; 02-06-2021 at 12:06 AM. Reason: zzzzzzz |
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02-06-2021, 12:13 AM | #17 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
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02-06-2021, 03:03 AM | #18 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
perhaps it's just the picture, the holes in the cap look oval
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02-06-2021, 07:20 AM | #19 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
I have used crocus paper to clean up journals that were a lot worse than yours. Cut or tear the paper in strips the width of the journal and then polish by pulling back and forth. Turn the journal to polish all parts. The crocus paper will not sand or abrade the journal but will polish it. Different grades are available. Measure the out of round and taper of the journal first and after polishing to assure it is OK. You should not be able to measure any difference in diameter with a micrometer.
You will need the plastigage to measure the clearance or use the aluminum foil trick. If you need to take up the bearing you can carefully file the cap or use some 80 grit sandpaper glued to a granite block or other flat surface. I would not worry about the color of the babbett. It is oxidized but otherwise OK. If you want you can use some yellow Timesaver to cleanup the bearing. Follow the directions. The yellow timesaver will not abrade the journal. It is designed to abrade softer materials only. The bearing will not be shinny after using the Timesaver but a uniform dull finish.
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02-06-2021, 09:33 AM | #20 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
My experience has not been to use babbitt, it has been in removing it prior to boring for inserts. What I have witnessed is the darker the babbitt the softer it is (higher lead content?). Generally the harder material breaks apart when pressure applied, the softer just deforms. Some of the center mains look as if the babbitt was just squeezed out front and back of the journal. You are right, Babbitt is an art form, done correctly can be very good, done wrong, not so much. John
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02-06-2021, 10:01 AM | #21 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
The bearing doesn’t look bad. As others have suggested, clean it up and see if you can set the correct clearance. I like to use Plastigage for this.
Jim |
02-06-2021, 10:43 AM | #22 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
I'm going deeper on the babbit question.I agree with the antimony content and shiny/harder theory...its not an oxidation result that I can tell what I know about oxidation and corrosion is it occurs from the outside -in and ultimately affects the surface...in this case the surface is perfect.
This block has been repaired ,it cracked 2&3 exhaust seat to cylinder.The repair work is beautiful and precise..ill shoot some more pictures today.the previous owner/ builder was a master machinist at Aero-jet,the rocket/ space research/defense outfit..I wonder if he used an uncommon /exotic babbit design. |
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02-06-2021, 11:06 AM | #23 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
That's lead based babbitt from the pictures you've shown of the B rod.
If it was tin/nickel antimony it wouldn't turn dark and dull as lead does. It would still be bright as the example I have included. |
02-06-2021, 11:09 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
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02-06-2021, 11:27 AM | #25 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Its not a high lead content that i can tell,lead scores easy,this is very hard.
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02-06-2021, 12:50 PM | #26 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
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Thanks ! I didnt get IT then, and dont know about now. I think that I heard what I thot you said, but not sure that what you said is not what I meant to hear. Did I tell you I have dyslexia. So, Im out in shed with flashlight.... in PJs...with ice pick in hand ! She , standing on porch..100 ft away, says the samhell are you doing !! Scratching the babbitt ! WHAT are you doing to the baby ???? Come in, your oatmeal is ready ! Yum..oatmeal... ok. Did you forget to take you medicine.. again ? No no, John said to scratch...forget it. BTW... it scratched easily.. the babbitt. Last edited by hardtimes; 02-06-2021 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Zzzzzzz |
02-06-2021, 01:04 PM | #27 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
The oxidation is only surface deep. It probably doesn't go any deeper than a few molecules.
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02-06-2021, 01:20 PM | #28 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Agreed Neil but its consistent,the coloration has no deviation...Hopefully I can get back on it today and give a better example of what it is.
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02-06-2021, 04:53 PM | #29 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Ok, so I just used crocus cloth as you suggested. Yeah, some improvement in appearance !
I’m familiar with this idea/process ! Dont think I can do maybe one a day. You old enough to get raspberry marks, or to know what they are ? I got plenty today by , just from just one throw. That and arthritis and done for the week now. She says ... work smarter !! I say hiring some yute to do...is smarter. Anyway, I’ll geterdone. |
02-06-2021, 06:37 PM | #30 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Is this an engine that has been run in the past or is it a "fresh" rebuild. If it has been run and the babbit looks like that I wouldn't loose much sleep about running it.
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02-06-2021, 07:13 PM | #31 |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Get a die grinder and some wool pads,use jewelers rouge it will polish like a mirror...works good on stainless too..crocus cloth too much work..
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02-07-2021, 02:53 AM | #32 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
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ITve been working at it hard most days. If I had a little help, I’d have it running. So far, I’ve been able to make great progress. I have stop for couple days, to give my swollen hands rest. This engine had good work done to it, who knows when. It obviously was not given proper care/maintenance, and stored that way years ago, IMO. I will make upgrades and get it running ....soon. If receive lemon, make lemonade !! |
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02-07-2021, 03:06 AM | #33 | |
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Re: Pic of #4 rod/bearing.
Quote:
So is lead still used or is this real old babbitt ? UPDATE: Rods 1,2and 3 are really nice babbitt and journals...bright/shiny !! Last edited by hardtimes; 02-08-2021 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Zzzzzzz |
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