Flipped uprights '49 Club Coupe

[CJStefan]

So I did the flip today. I put the passenger side upright on the driver side with the original driver side spindle, wide side on top. Now, I haven't fully assembled the uprights yet and I haven't re-installed the springs (aerostar) either. Before I ripped it all apart I put a magnetic angle finder on the flat face of the spindle. Camber was .5° negative. Now it's reading 3.5° positive (it was 10.5° negative with the spindle on upside down, as if I just flipped the entire assembly). I also have those camber adjustment brackets. The problem is they won't allow the upper arm to move in towards the engine far enough to get 4ﾟof (negative) camber adjustment. The spacers that the kit comes with can be cut down about half the size but that's not enough. So now the question is, will 3ﾟof positive camber affect handling a ton? Positive camber (to a point) increases straight line stability but decreases cornering stability. Does 3° cross that threshold?

[51 MERC-CT]

Have you considered using the factory camber adjustment to bring it to correct specs.
This method of lowering the front has been around since the 50's.
Heating and bending the components to achieve the correct specs was what was done.
Never had a problem.
That's the way this Merc, was done circa 1957.

[CJStefan]

Yeah, I have the cam (which is now on the bottom) adjusted so the bottom of the upright is as far to the outside as possible.

[34PKUP]

And of course you are doing this with the spindle located at ride height?

[CJStefan]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

And of course you are doing this with the spindle located at ride height?

I'm not. I'm trying to match what it was before I did the flip, which I also didn't measure at ride height. I'm not exactly sure where it'll be at ride height since I haven't reassembled everything yet. My thinking is if I can't get the camber to the point it was at, or to a point where it will drive well, I'm not going to flip them. Of course once the uprights are reassembled I can't just swap them back. I needed kingpins so I figured this was the perfect time to do it. So, is 3° positive camber gonna drive and handle like crap or no? Of course 10° negative camber would, which is what I'm sure 90% of people that do this swap run into

[tubman]

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Check this thread out : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-hack.1214369/.

[CJStefan]

It's coming up as error

[tubman]

Sorry about that. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-hack.1214369/.

The second paste of a pasted URL won't work,

[CJStefan]

The last post on that thread is mine. He's the one I got the idea from about keeping the spindle in the original orientation

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by CJStefan

I'm not. I'm trying to match what it was before I did the flip, which I also didn't measure at ride height. I'm not exactly sure where it'll be at ride height since I haven't reassembled everything yet. My thinking is if I can't get the camber to the point it was at, or to a point where it will drive well, I'm not going to flip them. Of course once the uprights are reassembled I can't just swap them back. I needed kingpins so I figured this was the perfect time to do it. So, is 3° positive camber gonna drive and handle like crap or no? Of course 10° negative camber would, which is what I'm sure 90% of people that do this swap run into

First you have to set the kingpin inclination angle to 5 1/4° ± 1/2°.
Then the camber angle should fall close to 0°
Forget what it was before because by adding the camber adjustment brackets you have altered the geometry.

[CJStefan]

I had the brackets on before I did the flip. I put them on when I did the Aerostar springs thinking they would change camber drastically. The springs pretty much didn't change the angle at all. After I added both them and the brackets, the camber stayed exactly the same (measured with the factory springs and no brackets) or at least it didn'tchange enough to read on my angle finder. Wouldn't the inclination angle stay the same since I flipped the upright upside down but put it on the opposite side? I know 0ﾟcamber is ideal but but that's why I'm trying to figure out how bad 3ﾟ positive camber will be

[Bored&Stroked]

Instead of imagining/hoping for what camber angle you'll have at spindle ride height, I would surely get the spindle to approximate ride height and then take my measurements. I've not done this work, but have done a lot of fabrication work - this is just how I'd do it.

[Bored&Stroked]

Also - have you validated the starting angle of the frame horns (piece of bar stock side-to-side), so you know what you're really working with. I would make sure that was zeroed before taking any other measurements.

[CJStefan]

The angle of the frame is going to change due to flipping the uprights and bringing the front end down. I have a jack under the lower a arm raising the assembly up to just about ride height give or take a bit. From fully extended to where ride height is the camber is only changing maybe a half to one degree

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by CJStefan

The angle of the frame is going to change due to flipping the uprights and bringing the front end down. I have a jack under the lower a arm raising the assembly up to just about ride height give or take a bit. From fully extended to where ride height is the camber is only changing maybe a half to one degree

On the angle, I meant a bar that goes from side to side - such that you know where zero should be on the angle gauge when measuring camber.

With the bar across the frame (side to side) - tacked in place or C-Clamped - when you put the angle gauge on it, it should read the same (zero) - then you know the car is level side to side. Then take your spindle measurements.

[CJStefan]

Got the front bumper about an inch to an inch and a half higher than ride height. That's as low as my Jack stands will go. I installed the spring and measured the distance between the lower arm and frame. Pulled the spring and raised the assembly back up to ride height. I unbolted the lower arm bolts and moved the arm out until the camber was exactly where I want it. I drilled where the new holes need to be, which is almost exactly an inch out from the originals. The new inner hole is almost centered between the originals so there will be no strength issue. Now the camber is -.80 and I still have adjustability to move it either pos or neg as needed. Caster is at 3.5 degrees positive so a little better than stock. I'm not sure how to post pics on here so I can't give a visual but it worked exactly as planned.

[rotorwrench]

Is Fatman not making this stuff anymore? They had the spindle supports or uprights and dropped steering arms for the whole deal. Adjusting the bushing cams isn't going to get far enough for such a drastic change. A person would want to have them where they can still have some adjustment for one way or the other. When a person starts tweeking the upright, it going to take a fair amount of it to work.

[tubman]

As I understand it, the Fatman kit is $800. Switching and flipping the uprights and a Shoebox Central Camber kit is supposed to accomplish the same thing for a lot less money.

[CJStefan]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Is Fatman not making this stuff anymore? They had the spindle supports or uprights and dropped steering arms for the whole deal. Adjusting the bushing cams isn't going to get far enough for such a drastic change. A person would want to have them where they can still have some adjustment for one way or the other. When a person starts tweeking the upright, it going to take a fair amount of it to work.

Did you read my post right above yours?

[CJStefan]

Originally Posted by tubman

As I understand it, the Fatman kit is $800. Switching and flipping the uprights and a Shoebox Central Camber kit is supposed to accomplish the same thing for a lot less money.

It's not quite that simple man. I thought the same thing but I ended up having to move the lower a-arm out to fix my camber. I also ordered the Fatman steering arms from Gambinos. Between them, the kingpin kit and the machine shop honing the kingpin bushings, I'm in to it for about half of the Fatman uprights with steering arms.